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3edcft6(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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It sounds like people are looking for something better than an ELT to
help people find them after a crash. I have an idea that I think is
worth exploring. To be legal you will still need an ELT or some other
"official" device. In order to do this you would have to get a HAM
radio license, but that should be a deterrent, any one who can build an
air plane should be able to pass the amazingly simple 35 question test
to get their call sign (Morse code is no longer required for any ham
license). In ham radio we have this thing called APRS (Automatic
Position Reporting System). All you need is a GPS receiver with a
serial output, a transmitter with antenna, and a TNC. In ham radio a
TNC is used to convert digital data to audio tones in a similar way that
a telephone modem does. There are a few special purpose TNCs that are
just for APRS and they cost less than $50. Some are so small that they
could be installed inside the transmitter. A good 2 meter transmitter
can be found new for $160 or less. You wouldn't have to fly much more
than 1000' AGL to get at least a 100 mile range. If you had a good
antenna and were over 5000' AGL a 300 mile range wouldn't be
surprising. There are enough repeaters and monitoring stations around
the USA to give you coverage if your range is 100 miles. The repeaters
and monitoring stations then send the data to the internet where anyone
can go online and find where you are at. Go here to find where I am at.
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=ke5gix
If you have friends that know that you are out flying somewhere they can
check and find out where you were when you last transmitted your
position. Not only will it tell them where you were it will tell them
when you were there, how fast you were going and in what direction. The
TNC I use is called an "Open Tracker" and has 2 configurations that can
be changed with a flip of a switch. In normal flight you could have it
set to transmit your position once every 5 minutes. Then in an
emergency, you could flip the switch and have it transmit every 15
seconds along with an emergency message so anyone who sees the position
report will know you are in trouble. Even if you didn't flip the
switch, the standard mode will transmit your position more rapidly if
there is any significant change in course.
Obviously this isn't the best system because once you are on the ground
the range of the system isn't near as great, and if you go down in the
middle of nowhere, there may not be a repeater or monitoring station in
range. However, there will be a record of your recent flight history on
the internet for anyone to see and you will have a transmitter that is
probably more useful in finding help than just an air band radio. There
are satellites for ham radio but there aren't very many so, you could
end up having to wait nearly 20 hours before one was overhead and you
could get a signal out. The most common one you could use to retransmit
your emergency position report is the International Space Stations that
orbits the earth about every 90 minutes. However, it's orbit is such
that only 2 or 3 passes each day will be in range of a given point on
the earth. I think there are other satellites up there that could be
used for that but I haven't got into it enough to know for sure.
If you want to spend the money and get a nice radio with a lot of these
features built in, you can also see weather reports on the screen.
Along with position data, fixed stations that have a weather station can
also transmit the weather conditions along with their position reports.
When I get my base station reorganized the way I want, I will be doing
this. I can't really say how many people do that so how useful it would
be in flight is unknown.
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
"Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM,
learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm"
Ham Radio Repeater Database.
http://hrrdb.com
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JohnInReno
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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Chris W wrote:
..snip...
| Quote: |
If you want to spend the money and get a nice radio with a lot of
these features built in, you can also see weather reports on the
screen. Along with position data, fixed stations that have a weather
station can also transmit the weather conditions along with their
position reports. When I get my base station reorganized the way I
want, I will be doing this. I can't really say how many people do
that so how useful it would be in flight is unknown.
I'm interested. Can you point to products for someone with zero HAM
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knowledge?
John Morgensen
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John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale |
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Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC program that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every five minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help in their own rescue if it were needed. Any takers?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
[quote][b]
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rv7(at)b4.ca
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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On 14:07 2008-01-16 Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC program
that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every five
minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help in
their own rescue if it were needed. Any takers?
|
Interesting, but unfortunately only useful in areas with Cell coverage.
That means not useful for flying in the Pacific Northwet, where you quickly
get into areas without coverage.
So far the best solutions still seem to be the Spot and the APRS, although
the APRS solution also needs coverage by the APRS repeaters. I don't have
a feel for how good that coverage is.
For that matter, I don't have a feel for how good the coverage of a
satellite phone is either, and that's what the Spot system uses. Does
anyone know how constant the coverage is, or if it will go to nothing if
you crash in a valley?
-Rob
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3edcft6(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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John Morgensen wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm interested. Can you point to products for someone with zero HAM
knowledge?
John Morgensen
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For a basic radio to transmit the position reports I would pick this one....
http://www.texastowers.com/tm271ak.htm
The nice thing about that radio for emergencies is it puts out lots of
power and in standby mode between transmissions, it draws less than
250ma with the display back light off.
For a fancy radio that will transmit the position reports as well as
display position reports from other stations on the screen and display
weather data for other stations, this is pretty much the best radio...
http://universal-radio.com/catalog/fm_txvrs/0710.html
That radio can also be had at Texas Towers but for some reason they
don't have it on their web site. I like Texas towers as a business
better than Universal Radio but their web site doesn't have much on it.
If you want a GPS receiver just for this, I would suggest this one....
https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath 3&products_id=61&osCsid=1li39b4ffp9fv3k7km6mkbfva6
or maybe
https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath 3&products_id=37
They both are small and use very little power.
The open tracker TNC can be had here....
https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=72
If you don't mind soldering the TNC to wires and hooking it up to the
radio inside you can get the tiny version of the open tracker here
https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath 2&products_id=64
For more information on the Open Tracker project go here
http://n1vg.net/opentracker/
You will also need to buy or build wires to hook everything together.
If you use the expensive radio, you don't need the TNC as it has that
built in. If you use the basic radio, you can hook up the TNC either
via the Microphone and speaker jack or you can order a cable that for
some bizarre reason Kenwood only sells in the European version of the
radio. The cable is only $12 from one of the Kenwood parts stores and
it is pretty simple to take the top of the radio and install the wire to
a plug on the circuit board. That way is much nicer because then you
can have the microphone also hooked up for voice communication.
There are lots of antenna options. The antenna can be just like the
antennas for you com radio, they just need to be a little shorter since
the 2 meter ham band is at a little higher frequency (144 - 148Mhz).
Depending on your power setting, the radio will need 3 to 10 amps during
transmit, however each position report takes less than 1 second, so if
it is set to transmit your position once every 2 to 5 minutes after you
are on the ground, it shouldn't need too big of a battery.
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
"Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM,
learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm"
Ham Radio Repeater Database.
http://hrrdb.com
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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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How would that work in the remote parts of the west and mountains were I fly?
Ron Lee
[quote] ---
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JohnInReno
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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No offense, but cell phone coverage in the Sierra Nevada Mountains is spotty at best. If I am going to crash, the odds are that it will be in the most inaccessible place you can imagine. The PLB and Spot systems are satellite based and should work anywhere on the planet that you can get a GPS signal. I would like to learn more about the APRS system mentioned by Chris W.
John Morgensen
Vanremog(at)aol.com (Vanremog(at)aol.com) wrote: [quote] I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC program that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every five minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help in their own rescue if it were needed. Any takers?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale |
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gmcjetpilot
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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How about GM make "ON STAR" and airbags for planes? Ha-ha
You could call and ask for cheapest av gas or good hotel on a cross country. Or give a heads up to the family of your ETA. No doubt in the next decade or two we'll have this for GA. However with gas costing what it does, I wounder if GA will exist.
[quote][b]
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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? |
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George, I also am not optimistic about GA. The real indicator that GA
is under pressure is that I am cutting my flying.
Just get a Spot and the problem is solved.
Ron Lee
[quote][b]
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