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FAA certification

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darrellhaas(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: FAA certification

OK team-Help!  I have searched the archives and I'm still confused by an email I got from the FAA. I wrote: I have recently purchased a Zenith Zodiac 601XL fuselage kit and will be constructing it at home in Fairview, Oregon. I am unsure of the requirements for certification/inspection of this light sport homebuilt aircraft. Any advice you can give will be appreciated. His (FAA) response: I looked into the Zodiac home web page and saw that your aircraft may qualify as a light sport aircraft by weight and operating speeds, but am not sure which way you want to proceed with certification.  To be eligible for the experimental light sport certification, the aircraft must qualify under Special Light Sport Aircraft regulations, and must meet a consensus standard including instructions from the manufacturer for construction, maintenance, inspection, and operation of the aircraft.   

If you wish to certificate as an Experimental Amateur-built aircraft, a different process and set of regulations are followed.  Please let me know which avenue you wish to pursue, and I can help provide the proper information for certification. 

       I am a private pilot that wants to fly without all the money and red tape to get a medical every couple years. I want to fly with my drivers licence for my medical and be my own repairman and mechanic. This all seems like double talk. Advice? 

 Thanks for listening.

 Darrell

  [quote][b]

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: FAA certification

Hi Darrell,



 You can only have your plane certified as Experimental-Amateur Built.  It is not possible to get an E-SLA since there is not a corresponding S-LSA from the same manufacturer.



 The good news is this doesn't make any difference with regard to who can fly it.  The idea of flying with Sport Pilot limitations is a good one for many people.  It doesn't matter what kind of airworthiness certificate the plane has.  It just matters that it meets the performance and equipment requirements for an LSA.



 Have fun,



 Paul

 XL fuselage

 do not archive



 

 At 09:08 PM 1/16/2008, you wrote:



 [quote]If you wish to certificate as an Experimental Amateur-built aircraft, a different process and set of regulations are followed. 

 Please let me know which avenue you wish to pursue, and I can help provide the proper information for certification. 

       I am a private pilot that wants to fly without all the money and red tape to get a medical every couple years. I want to fly with my drivers licence for my medical and be my own repairman and mechanic. This all seems like double talk. Advice? 

 Thanks for listening.

 Darrell



  	  Quote: 	
		  

[/b] 	
[b]

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: FAA certification

simple:

register EAB, then fly off 40 hours and go to FSBO to get repair ticket

register ELSA, fly of less  hours but the take class 14 hours to repair ticket



thats bout it.



Juan



--

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: Re: FAA certification

And to register as E-LSA he has to finish it before the end of this month.

 	  amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: 	
		  simple:

register EAB, then fly off 40 hours and go to FSBO to get repair ticket

register ELSA, fly of less  hours but the take class 14 hours to repair ticket



thats bout it.



Juan



--

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: FAA certification

I have seen this comment before but still have questions.



I understand that the deadline is for converting "fat ultralights" to

the E LSA but that new kit/plans builds will be eligible for E LSA as

they are completed.



Can someone guide me to the regs that will help clarify it for me?



I had planned to register mine (701) as an E LSA.



I still cannot find definitive documentation. 

 

 

 

 

Randall J Hebert

 

Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc

Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers

Lafayette, Louisiana

PH 337-261-1976      -     FX 337-261-1977



--

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: FAA certification

This is what I am basing my opinion on



http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/lsa/likely_lsa.pdf



 

 

 

 

 

 

Randall J Hebert

 

Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc

Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers

Lafayette, Louisiana

PH 337-261-1976      -     FX 337-261-1977



--

passpat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: FAA certification

you need to read FAA Order 8130.2f with change 3 this has all of the info with in

    

    Pat 

    AB-DAR

 

 

 --

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Re: FAA certification

That's the thing Randy. Right now Zenith doesn't produce an S-LSA. One of the requirements for E-LSA is that it is a kit version of an S-LSA. The exception for this is the Fat Ultralight exemption that ends this month. And from reading EAA releases on the issue if you haven't already gotten it done now there is a real good chance it isn't going to get done.



Call the EAA they are very helpful on stuff like this.

 	  randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co wrote: 	
		  I have seen this comment before but still have questions.



I understand that the deadline is for converting "fat ultralights" to

the E LSA but that new kit/plans builds will be eligible for E LSA as

they are completed.



Can someone guide me to the regs that will help clarify it for me?



I had planned to register mine (701) as an E LSA.



I still cannot find definitive documentation. 

 

 

 

 

Randall J Hebert

 

Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc

Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers

Lafayette, Louisiana

PH 337-261-1976      -     FX 337-261-1977



--

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: FAA certification

Thanks Gig and Pat



By the way I tried to follow the Order 8130-2f Chg 3 but it got lost in

the translation.



i.e. I lost patience.  Yes I will call EAA 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Randall J Hebert

 

Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc

Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers

Lafayette, Louisiana

PH 337-261-1976      -     FX 337-261-1977



--

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: FAA certification

The Zodiac can be registered as an experimental amateur built or it can 

be registered as an E-LSA under the "fat ultralight" clause of the LSA 

regulations. However, the deadline for the "fat ultralight" clause is 

January 31st of 2008, so you probably won't be able to go that route 

because you won't be able to get the airworthiness inspection done by 

the end of this month; you will have to register it as an E-AB. In 

either case, as long as you register it with a gross weight of 1320 

pounds or less, it will meet the limitations of the LSA rule and can be 

flown under the sport pilot rules. A sport pilot can fly any plane with 

a Standard, Primary, E-AB or LSA airworthiness certificate as long as it 

meets the limitations of the LSA rule and has continued to do so since 

its original certification.



Check out the EAA website (www.eaa.org), find a local chapter, keep a 

good builder's log with photographs of you building the kit and use the 

EAA technical councilor program. You don't really have to get the FAA 

involved until you are ready to schedule an airworthiness inspection. As 

the primary builder of an E-AB, you will automatically qualify for the 

repairman certificate for that plans, you may be able to submit the 

application for that certificate at the time of your airworthiness 

inspection. The process really isn't all that complicated. Don't forget 

about the requirements for registering an aircraft in your state, 

including tax obligations, if any.



Darrell Haas wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   OK team-Help!  I have searched the archives and I'm still confused by an 

 email I got from the FAA. I wrote: I have recently purchased a Zenith 

 Zodiac 601XL fuselage kit and will be constructing it at home in 

 Fairview, Oregon. ...

 

       I am a private pilot that wants to fly without all the money and 

 red tape to get a medical every couple years. I want to fly with my 

 drivers licence for my medical and be my own repairman and mechanic. 

 This all seems like double talk. Advice?

 Thanks for listening.

 Darrell

 



-- 
	


Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: FAA certification

Go to: http://www.matronics.com/searching , choose the Zenith archives 

and enter the search string "E-AB vs. E-LSA", you'll find an earlier 

post I made citing the regulations. I paraphrased the regulations in my 

post but included the FAR paragraph numbers if you want to look up the 

actual rules yourself.



Basically, if you already bought your CH 701 kit, you will not be able 

to register it as an LSA unless you can get it done by the end of this 

month. You will have to register it as an E-AB. Even as an E-AB, the 

plane will still meet the limitations of the LSA rule and can be flown 

under the sport pilot rules.



At some future date Zenith may choose to build a consensus standard 

compliant CH701 S-LSA and then they can offer E-LSA kits based on that 

prototype. Until then, no CH701s can be certificated as E-LSA after the 

end of this month. Zenith Aircraft hasn't announced any intention of 

offering an E-LSA version of the CH701.



Randall J. Hebert wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I have seen this comment before but still have questions.

 

 I understand that the deadline is for converting "fat ultralights" to

 the E LSA but that new kit/plans builds will be eligible for E LSA as

 they are completed.

 

 Can someone guide me to the regs that will help clarify it for me?

 

 I had planned to register mine (701) as an E LSA.

 

 I still cannot find definitive documentation. 

  


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

darrellhaas(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: FAA certification

Thank you all for your great information. I love this list!

Darrell



On 1/17/08, Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The Zodiac can be registered as an experimental amateur built or it can

 be registered as an E-LSA under the "fat ultralight" clause of the LSA

 regulations. However, the deadline for the "fat ultralight" clause is

 January 31st of 2008, so you probably won't be able to go that route

 because you won't be able to get the airworthiness inspection done by

 the end of this month; you will have to register it as an E-AB. In

 either case, as long as you register it with a gross weight of 1320

 pounds or less, it will meet the limitations of the LSA rule and can be

 flown under the sport pilot rules. A sport pilot can fly any plane with

 a Standard, Primary, E-AB or LSA airworthiness certificate as long as it

 meets the limitations of the LSA rule and has continued to do so since

 its original certification.



 Check out the EAA website (www.eaa.org), find a local chapter, keep a

 good builder's log with photographs of you building the kit and use the

 EAA technical councilor program. You don't really have to get the FAA

 involved until you are ready to schedule an airworthiness inspection. As

 the primary builder of an E-AB, you will automatically qualify for the

 repairman certificate for that plans, you may be able to submit the

 application for that certificate at the time of your airworthiness

 inspection. The process really isn't all that complicated. Don't forget

 about the requirements for registering an aircraft in your state,

 including tax obligations, if any.



 Darrell Haas wrote:

 > OK team-Help!  I have searched the archives and I'm still confused by an

 > email I got from the FAA. I wrote: I have recently purchased a Zenith

 > Zodiac 601XL fuselage kit and will be constructing it at home in

 > Fairview, Oregon. ...

 >

 >       I am a private pilot that wants to fly without all the money and

 > red tape to get a medical every couple years. I want to fly with my

 > drivers licence for my medical and be my own repairman and mechanic.

 > This all seems like double talk. Advice?

 > Thanks for listening.

 > Darrell

 >

 >

 --

 Bryan Martin

 Zenith 601XL N61BM

 Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

 Do Not Archive

dragonfuel(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: FAA certification

 	  Quote: 	
		  Zenith may choose to build a consensus standard  compliant CH701 S-LSA and then they can offer E-LSA kits based on that  prototype. 	
  

 

   Bryan,

 

 I don't think it is likely that Zenith will do that.  #1 they haven't built finished production type planes that I recall (within the Zenair family of companies, AMD does that), #2 they are selling plenty of 701 kits as it is, #3 they would pick up a significant amount of manufacturers liability by certifying a consensus standard 701 (and by the way have you noticed how "non-standard" many of the 701 builders are?).  Also, of course, you have the fact that AMD is selling a similar SLSA "Patriot".

 

 I would think it more possible that Zenair would work out some way to sell a consenus standard ELSA Zodiac 601XL kit.  After all AMD builds a production SLSA Zodiac now under license from Zenair and Zenith builds the  Zodiac 601XL kits also under Zenair license.  

 

 In either case it would have to make some financial sense to all the companies.  Licensing a consenus standard kit would not come without financial consideration to cover the inevitable manufacturers liability, plus some profit.  Without that, ELSA as we know it is almost at an end.

 

 Cheers,

 

 Bob Archibald

 Dragonfly Aviation

 CH601XL/125hp Lyc/Dynons/400 hrs

 

 Do not archive

 

   

 

     More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail! 

  [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: FAA certification

I agree, Zenith isn't likely to offer an E-LSA version of the C701. I 

was just indicating what would be required for getting an E-LSA 

certificate for a CH701 and why it won't be possible to get that 

certification on any current kit after this January.



My main point is that the airplane doesn't need an LSA certificate to be 

eligible for a sport pilot to fly it, the E-AB certificate will work 

just as well for that purpose. There still seems to be a lot of 

confusion over that point.



dragonfuel(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Bryan,

 

 I don't think it is likely that Zenith will do that. 


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

passpat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: FAA certification

Sport Pilot News > News Archive   01/16/08 - TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR E-LSA CONVERSION

   EAA continues to monitor the backlog of experimental light-sport aircraft that have been registered, but not yet certificated, with the January 31, 2008, deadline for doing so fast approaching.

   On December 17, 2007, EAA submitted an exemption request asking the FAA to extend that deadline for people who have submitted their aircraft registration applications, but for whatever reason will be unable to certificate the aircraft in time. The agency (FAA) has not indicated whether or not the exemption will be approved, so it is exceedingly important that affected individuals complete the entire registration and certification process by the January deadline.

   If the FAA approves EAA’s exemption petition, then owners of converting E-LSA aircraft would have until January 31, 2008 (received-by date) to submit their aircraft registration application to the FAA. They would then be authorized to complete the aircraft’s airworthiness certification inspection in the spring/summer of 2008. EAA needs to stress that the FAA has not approved the exemption yet, so don’t stop or alter your plans to register and certify your E-LSA by the January 2008 deadline.

   If you need to obtain the required Aircraft Registration Application, AC Form 8050-1, be aware it is not available as an on-line document. The form can only be obtained by visiting or calling:

   Any FAA FSDO office  
Any FAA MIDO office  
The FAA Aircraft Registration Branch 
  If you do not have a registration application form yet, you must factor the amount of time required to obtain the form, plus the time to complete it, plus the time needed to get it to the aircraft registration office – to make sure that it’s received by January 31, 2008. For those just now submitting their aircraft registration application, it’s highly recommended you use an overnight delivery service to send the information to the Aircraft Registration Branch at this address:

   FAA Aircraft Registration Branch, AFS-750

 Registry Building Room 118

 6425 South Denning

 Oklahoma City, OK 73169-6937

 

 

 --

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