 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments |
 |
|
Hello all,
I also agree with the list of benefits that Charles provided making the Lightning a much better choice over the Sport Cruiser. However, I would add one more very important reason in my mind to pick the Lightning that was not on his list - and that is the Jabiru engine. It means a lot to me that the Jabiru 3300 was designed from day one to be a real airplane engine. The air cooled, direct drive engine means a much simpler design. And when you look at cost to acquire, cost to operate, cost to maintain, time between over-hall and over-hall cost, there really is no comparison that does not favor the Jabiru. And............................................................................ it sounds like a real airplane engine.
About two or three weeks ago I landed by Wakefield, VA (AKQ is where Linda and Joe keep their airplanes) to get some of the self serve low cost fuel. There was a brand new Sport Cruiser there with the new owner and his instructor. It was a nice looking airplane, well finished and a good looking paint job and interior. The new owner was a pilot but needed some dual for his insurance company. They were from North Carolina and were just flying around building time. We talked some about his new Sport Cruiser and of course they were amazed at the looks of N31BZ, but did not know what it was and had never heard of the Lightning. I gave them a quick background on the Esqual and how the Lightning came to be and they were amazed at the cost, time to build and of course performance it provides. You could kind of see the envy in their eyes and by the questions they asked. I filled up and took off while they were sitting in their airplane - I think they wanted to see me take off. Then they took off and headed south at around 2500 feet. Well, of course I could not resist the temptation to show them the performance that the Esqual/Lightning/Jabiru combination provides. After a quick radio call to them, I quickly joined up in a loose route position on their right wing and commented that I wish I had a camera. They said the same thing an again mentioning what a beautiful airplane I had. But what really surprised me was their cruise speed. They were in level cruise flight with me flying formation and my indicated airspeed at 2500 feet was only 99 mph and of course I had the throttle way back. I thought the Sport Cruiser would have had a much higher cruise. After a few seconds I pushed my throttle full forward and quickly pulled way ahead, started a right 360 and came by them this time at 170 indicated. Their radio call to me way a simple "Wow, that thing is really fast". We quickly said our farewells and headed our separate ways. Of course I can just imagine their conversation as they flew back to NC.
Our local EAA chapter has built a Zodiac 601XL which I think the Sport Cruises is loosely based on. I have flown this 601 quite a bit and know what it's performance is, and believe me, the 3300 Jabiru engine that we put in it gives much better performance in terms of cruise speed. I don't know if a Jabiru engine is an option for the Sport Cruiser, but I feel sure it would give it better performance than the current Rotax that is used.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments |
|
|
Thanks Buz for a comparison that hits one of the major points I had with the Sport Cruiser when I was evaluating an aircraft to buy; speed and the engine. They do, however offer, (in vapor), a 3300 option, but are not delivering this to anyone as of yet. The excuse is that they are so busy filling orders with the Rotax, that they don’t have time to fit and test the 3300. While there may be some truth to this, it could also have something to do with the fact that they need to put the 3300 in the Mermaid to get it off the water in a timely manner; I don’t know.
I put a fair amount of time in the SC when I was down in Indiantown, and it does fly nicely, is very well made, and is WIDE! I had it cruising at around 105 knots, (120mph) at 75%. While this is not slow, it is not fast either, and the SC does not cruise as fast as they say it does. The other thing is that it is a heavier aircraft than what they say it is. This translates into a smaller useful load.
All that said, while not my first choice, it is still a nice aircraft, but not a Lightning…
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:18 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments
Hello all,
I also agree with the list of benefits that Charles provided making the Lightning a much better choice over the Sport Cruiser. However, I would add one more very important reason in my mind to pick the Lightning that was not on his list - and that is the Jabiru engine. It means a lot to me that the Jabiru 3300 was designed from day one to be a real airplane engine. The air cooled, direct drive engine means a much simpler design. And when you look at cost to acquire, cost to operate, cost to maintain, time between over-hall and over-hall cost, there really is no comparison that does not favor the Jabiru. And............................................................................ it sounds like a real airplane engine.
About two or three weeks ago I landed by Wakefield, VA (AKQ is where Linda and Joe keep their airplanes) to get some of the self serve low cost fuel. There was a brand new Sport Cruiser there with the new owner and his instructor. It was a nice looking airplane, well finished and a good looking paint job and interior. The new owner was a pilot but needed some dual for his insurance company. They were from North Carolina and were just flying around building time. We talked some about his new Sport Cruiser and of course they were amazed at the looks of N31BZ, but did not know what it was and had never heard of the Lightning. I gave them a quick background on the Esqual and how the Lightning came to be and they were amazed at the cost, time to build and of course performance it provides. You could kind of see the envy in their eyes and by the questions they asked. I filled up and took off while they were sitting in their airplane - I think they wanted to see me take off. Then they took off and headed south at around 2500 feet. Well, of course I could not resist the temptation to show them the performance that the Esqual/Lightning/Jabiru combination provides. After a quick radio call to them, I quickly joined up in a loose route position on their right wing and commented that I wish I had a camera. They said the same thing an again mentioning what a beautiful airplane I had. But what really surprised me was their cruise speed. They were in level cruise flight with me flying formation and my indicated airspeed at 2500 feet was only 99 mph and of course I had the throttle way back. I thought the Sport Cruiser would have had a much higher cruise. After a few seconds I pushed my throttle full forward and quickly pulled way ahead, started a right 360 and came by them this time at 170 indicated. Their radio call to me way a simple "Wow, that thing is really fast". We quickly said our farewells and headed our separate ways. Of course I can just imagine their conversation as they flew back to NC.
Our local EAA chapter has built a Zodiac 601XL which I think the Sport Cruises is loosely based on. I have flown this 601 quite a bit and know what it's performance is, and believe me, the 3300 Jabiru engine that we put in it gives much better performance in terms of cruise speed. I don't know if a Jabiru engine is an option for the Sport Cruiser, but I feel sure it would give it better performance than the current Rotax that is used.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments |
|
|
Hi Jim,
Your experience with the Sport Cruiser's actual cruise speed of 120 mph is much closer to what we are seeing in the 601XL that our chapter built. It easily cruises about 130 mph using around 6 gph with the 3300 Jabiru turning around 2850 rpm. However, we did some "extra" clean up work during the build process, so it is probably a little quicker than the average 601XL. For example we did not follow the plans when mounting the wheel pants, instead we worked out mounting brackets that allowed the pants to cover the brakes and center the pants exactly over the brake/wheel/tire. Also spent some extra time on the nose wheel pant and cleaning up the nose strut. Other drag reducing efforts had to do with the wing to fuselage attachment area under the wing. The plans showed nothing there to cover the gap. I think all of these efforts had an effect on this particular aircraft.
The Sport Cruiser that I flew with was probably near gross with the two aboard and full fuel. It may do better if it is at a lighter weight. I did not ask what their indicated airspeed was, but I do know that 31BZ dual airspeeds are pretty darn close to actual. But for someone that wants a ready made aluminum airplane, that is well built and comfortable for a big guy, it is probably a good choice, especially when they get the Jabiru engine. Also, they always have some good looking young ladies showing them at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun. Maybe that is why I liked the looks of it when at those shows.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments |
|
|
Many of my same thoughts until I actually sat in the Lightning with my 6’-3” brother-in-law and fit comfortably.
From there, it was all over, wrote the check and I was on my way.
Not much prettier out there.
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:13 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments
Hi Jim,
Your experience with the Sport Cruiser's actual cruise speed of 120 mph is much closer to what we are seeing in the 601XL that our chapter built. It easily cruises about 130 mph using around 6 gph with the 3300 Jabiru turning around 2850 rpm. However, we did some "extra" clean up work during the build process, so it is probably a little quicker than the average 601XL. For example we did not follow the plans when mounting the wheel pants, instead we worked out mounting brackets that allowed the pants to cover the brakes and center the pants exactly over the brake/wheel/tire. Also spent some extra time on the nose wheel pant and cleaning up the nose strut. Other drag reducing efforts had to do with the wing to fuselage attachment area under the wing. The plans showed nothing there to cover the gap. I think all of these efforts had an effect on this particular aircraft.
The Sport Cruiser that I flew with was probably near gross with the two aboard and full fuel. It may do better if it is at a lighter weight. I did not ask what their indicated airspeed was, but I do know that 31BZ dual airspeeds are pretty darn close to actual. But for someone that wants a ready made aluminum airplane, that is well built and comfortable for a big guy, it is probably a good choice, especially when they get the Jabiru engine. Also, they always have some good looking young ladies showing them at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun. Maybe that is why I liked the looks of it when at those shows.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments |
|
|
In a message dated 1/20/2008 12:43:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM writes:
| Quote: | | I don't know if a Jabiru engine is an option for the Sport Cruiser, but I feel sure it would give it better performance than the current Rotax that is used. |
Most of the S-LSA's are using the 912 Rotax ULS. It is rated at 100 hp and is particularly suited to swinging a "thrust" prop because of the gearing. However, they seem to hit the wall at about 120 mph. That three bladed prop that gave such great thrust on the ground doesn't do well at higher speeds
Since the Jab 3300 has 20% more rated power at about the same installed weight but is direct drive, it shines when you can get the speeds up.
Buz's bugsmasher, the Zodiac 601 is probably the fasted one around. They have thick enough wings to make wing lockers that will each hold a suitcase!
It also makes a difference using a two blade prop. The Rotax doesn't give the takeoff thrust with a two blade and still suffers at the top end.
There are a lot of Rotax's out there, but they have their problems. The biggest one now is that it is a $20,000 engine!!!
Doug Koenigsberg
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments |
|
|
In a message dated 1/20/2008 4:56:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Kayberg(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | | Buz's bugsmasher, the Zodiac 601 is probably the fasted one around. |
Oh please, Doug, it's not my airplane - too ugly for me. Sorry Mark, but the truth sometimes hurts. And now the word is out that "Mr Lightning lead builder in SYI", Mark Stouffer, is building a 601XL in his garage. What was he thinking? To be honest, I think he started it before he went to work at Arion. I bet if he had to do it again, he would chose a Lightning and have been already flying it for over a year.
Yes, I was the technical advisor for the chapter's XL and made the first flight (actually the first ten hours or so) but it was built by the chapter and then sold to four chapter members that formed a LLC to own and fly it. We used the firewall forward kit as developed and sold by Jabiru USA and the guys could not be happier. The wooden Sensenich as provided in the firewall kit was the perfect match for the airplane/engine combination. We just completed a 100 hour check. It has been flying for about 8 months.
I have flown several of the LLC guys in 31BZ and you can bet what they are talking about building next. Actually two of them want to sell now and start their own Lightnings as soon as that happens.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: SC / Lightning comparison plus other comments |
|
|
I think that Mark is a "Builder's builder", meaning that he likes a challenge. I hear that his next project is going to be the Spruce Goose II. (100,000,000 man hours to complete) Working on these time consuming airplanes helps him to help you guys in the builder assist program because he's been there and seen that. He does enjoy flying the Lightning in his time off to unwind though. Isn't that right Mark 
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. Play now! [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
