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Step crack

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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Step crack

While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual amount  

 of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A.  Checking it out I  found a 

 crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion  of

 the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.

  

 Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be  rewelded

 and somehow have that area reinforced.

  

 I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people  installing

 these steps should consider reinforcing that area before  installation.

  

 Ron Lee

  

  

    [quote][b]

chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Step crack

This IS a big problem.  Van's says they don't hear  anything, therefore there isn't a problem as far as they're concerned.  I  beg to disagree with them.  I had one step crack in the same identical spot  as yours Lee (I built a 9A).  Called Van's, Scott says, "Hmmm, news to  me.  We haven't heard of any problems with cracks."  

  

 Next day a fellow "nine" driver came over with TWO cracked  steps in hand off his "nine".  Said Van's said the same thing to him.   He ordered two additional new steps from Van's and sent them pics of the  steps.  A week later a "Six driver" from the other side of the airport  showed up with a cracked step.  All this from one little 'ol airport.   Not a problem?

  

 I took it out and delivered it to a big time welding shop here  on the Central Coast (Santa Maria,CA).  I asked if it could be repaired,  and would he reinforce it somehow?  He studied the step and said he  wouldn't recommend reinforcing it as making it too stiff might encourage it to  crack again even quicker in a different spot.  Something to do with the  type of steel, thickness, and angles of attachment combined with load  forces.  Stuff I didn't really understand.  

  

 He rewelded it from front to aft underside.  I had it  repowder coated and I reinstalled it.  It's been more than a year ago and  it's still fine.  One thing I do do is to use a stool to gain access to the  cockpit while in the hanger avoiding the steps altogether if  possible. 

 Chuck

 RV10 Finishing up the Fuselage.

  

 ---

Bret Smith

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Step crack

I reinforced the steps in my -9A with .040 inside  the fuselage.  I attached a photo.  However, the cracks you guys are  describing are sounding like weld failures.

  

 Bret Smith

RV-9A "Canopy"

Blue Ridge,  GA

www.FlightInnovations.com

  

  

 [quote]   ---

step_doubler.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

495.43 KB

Viewed:

564 Time(s)

_________________
Bret Smith
RV-9A (Emp)

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: Step crack

Chuck,

  

 You  make a good point.  Metals, metallurgy and materials science is far more  complex and requires a level of sophistication that even knowledgeable  homebuilders and experimenters are unlikely to have.  As they say, it is an  art all by itself.  When done properly the selection of metals, attachment  and structure configuration is a dizzying array of possibilities to arrive at a  design that is inexpensive, strong, durable and manufacturable.  When done  well, we never even notice.

  

 Chuck Jensen 

 

--

rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: Step crack

4130 really is a poor choice of material for the step, the high carbon content of 4130 makes it far less ductile than other common materials such as 304 stainless.  In other words, 4130 is far less tolerant of flexing.  I have a source that makes streamline tubing out of 304, wouldn't be hard to make the step out of it. 



Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const.



On Jan 23, 2008 9:33 AM, Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net (ronlee(at)pcisys.net)> wrote:

[quote]        While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual amount  

 of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A.  Checking it out I  found a 

 crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion  of

 the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.

  

 Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be  rewelded

 and somehow have that area reinforced.

  

 I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people  installing

 these steps should consider reinforcing that area before  installation.

  

 Ron Lee

  

  

     	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Step crack

Miles Towner the former Quality Control individual at VANS left when Ken Krueger saw no need for such service.  He now works with me at Horizon Airlines in Portland.  

   

Eddy Current testing is not difficult to find through GA sources.  Sounds like a clear pattern of failed welds is beginning to surface.  It beckons the question, “What date was receipt of the step received by the builder”.  Maybe this is an old issue for parts shipped more than three years ago.  

   

John Cox  

RV10        

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Weyant

 Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:08 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Step crack  

  

     

This IS a big problem.  Van's says they don't hear anything, therefore there isn't a problem as far as they're concerned.  I beg to disagree with them.  I had one step crack in the same identical spot as yours Lee (I built a 9A).  Called Van's, Scott says, "Hmmm, news to me.  We haven't heard of any problems with cracks."    

    

   

    

Next day a fellow "nine" driver came over with TWO cracked steps in hand off his "nine".  Said Van's said the same thing to him.  He ordered two additional new steps from Van's and sent them pics of the steps.  A week later a "Six driver" from the other side of the airport showed up with a cracked step.  All this from one little 'ol airport.  Not a problem?  

    

   

    

I took it out and delivered it to a big time welding shop here on the Central Coast (Santa Maria,CA).  I asked if it could be repaired, and would he reinforce it somehow?  He studied the step and said he wouldn't recommend reinforcing it as making it too stiff might encourage it to crack again even quicker in a different spot.  Something to do with the type of steel, thickness, and angles of attachment combined with load forces.  Stuff I didn't really understand.    

    

   

    

He rewelded it from front to aft underside.  I had it repowder coated and I reinstalled it.  It's been more than a year ago and it's still fine.  One thing I do do is to use a stool to gain access to the cockpit while in the hanger avoiding the steps altogether if possible.   

    

Chuck  

    

RV10 Finishing up the Fuselage.  

    

   

    

---

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Step crack

My best recollection is that I installed the step in 2005, probably in  

 the first six months of 2005

  

 Ron Lee

 [quote] [b]

d-burton(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: Step crack

Post us a picture if you can Ron, or anybody else who has had this problem.  

DaveB  

RV6  

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee

 Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:34 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Step crack  

  

     

While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual amount   

    

of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A.  Checking it out I found a   

    

crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion of  

    

the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.  

    

   

    

Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be rewelded  

    

and somehow have that area reinforced.  

    

   

    

I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people installing  

    

these steps should consider reinforcing that area before installation.  

    

   

    

Ron Lee  

    

   

    

   

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       [quote][b]

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: Step crack

Here it is.  This is on the inside of the step just under the  weld.

  

 http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/StepCrack1Small.jpg

 [quote] [b]

Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: Step crack

This is not just an isolated problem.  My RV-6A steps both cracked.  Kit shipped in about 1995, first flight 1999, cracks occurred at approximately 500 hours.

  	  Quote: 	
		  -- 

Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)

RV-6A N47TD -- 999 hrs

RV-10 #40059 under construction 	
 

 

 Chuck Weyant wrote: [quote]            This IS a big problem.  Van's says they don't hear anything, therefore there isn't a problem as far as they're concerned.  I beg to disagree with them.  I had one step crack in the same identical spot as yours Lee (I built a 9A).  Called Van's, Scott says, "Hmmm, news to me.  We haven't heard of any problems with cracks."  

    

   Next day a fellow "nine" driver came over with TWO cracked steps in hand off his "nine".  Said Van's said the same thing to him.  He ordered two additional new steps from Van's and sent them pics of the steps.  A week later a "Six driver" from the other side of the airport showed up with a cracked step.  All this from one little 'ol airport.  Not a problem?

    

   I took it out and delivered it to a big time welding shop here on the Central Coast (Santa Maria,CA).  I asked if it could be repaired, and would he reinforce it somehow?  He studied the step and said he wouldn't recommend reinforcing it as making it too stiff might encourage it to crack again even quicker in a different spot.  Something to do with the type of steel, thickness, and angles of attachment combined with load forces.  Stuff I didn't really understand.  

    

   He rewelded it from front to aft underside.  I had it repowder coated and I reinstalled it.  It's been more than a year ago and it's still fine.  One thing I do do is to use a stool to gain access to the cockpit while in the hanger avoiding the steps altogether if possible. 

   Chuck

   RV10 Finishing up the Fuselage.

    

   ---

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: Step crack

Another reason I'm glad I used nutplates on my baggage  floor. Looks like checking this location needs to be part of the  annual



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron  Lee

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:50 PM

To:  rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Step  crack

 

 Here it is.  This is on the inside of the step just under the  weld.

  

 http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/StepCrack1Small.jpg

 [quote] 



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Step crack

The step might be designed for the standard FAA 170  pound person. And can't take any extra "G's".

 Bruce Bell

 RV-4 N23BB

 [quote]   ---

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: Step crack

Exactly Bob.  When I installed my step as a  retrofit I added nutplates and was glad I did

 since you need to access that area to replace the  step.

  

 My plan is to have the step rewelded and maybe  reinforced.  Since many have had this

 same problem, what did you do and what would you  suggest that I do in this situation?

  

 Ron Lee

 [quote]   



   Another reason I'm glad I used nutplates on my baggage    floor. Looks like checking this l

   ocation needs to be part of the  annual

    

    

[b]

Carl

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Aiken, SC

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: Step crack

I don’t know if it will make a difference, but the new ones don’t look like this.  On my 7A steps the metal plate extends about a ¼” below the tube where it goes through it.    

     

[b]Carl W Bell[/b]  

[b]New Venture Consulting[/b]  

Mobile:  803.640.2760  

www.newventureconsulting.com  

carlbell(at)gforcecable.com (carlbell(at)gforcecable.com)  

        

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee

 Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:50 PM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Step crack  

  

     

Here it is.  This is on the inside of the step just under the weld.  

    

   

    

http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/StepCrack1Small.jpg  

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       [quote][b]

_________________
Carl Bell
Building N947CB
RV 7A

Bret Smith

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: Step crack

Here is a shot of my step.  2007 vintage with  the lower flange.

  

 http://www.flightinnovations.com/images/fuselage/070826j.jpg

  

 Bret Smith

RV-9A "Canopy"

Blue Ridge,  GA

www.FlightInnovations.com

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Bret Smith
RV-9A (Emp)

chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: Step crack

I don't think the problem is inside, its exterior. No need for  all the nutplates and added labor.  

  

 To remove the step for repair, all I did was cut a 5 inch  square hole in the baggage floor over the plastic block, bolt and nut of the  step unit.  Removed the bolt, made the repair to the step, reinstalled and  fastened a new cover plate over the baggage floor cutout.  Easy.  And  if it happens again, access will even be quicker with only two or four screws to  remove to gain access.

 Chuck

 [quote]   Subject: RE: Step crack

   



   Another reason I'm glad I used nutplates on my baggage    floor. Looks like checking this location needs to be part of the    annual



         

[b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Step crack

[quote="chuck(at)chuckdirect.com"]I don't think the problem is inside, its exterior. No need for  all the nutplates and added labor.  

  [quote] 



I can't speak for others but it looks like the crack is along the weld. On my installation, I increased the hole slightly to accomodate the weld and provide a more flush fit. So it is visible from inside. Otherwise you'd have to remove the step for inspection since -- as I understand it -- the troublesome spot would be covered by the square plate. That's the way I viewed the photo that was uploaded anyway.

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

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