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TruTrak ADI

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flagstone(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: TruTrak ADI

Hi:



I've  been looking at the TruTrak ADI (Attitude Direction Indicator) as a back-up for  my panel. I was reading the manual and it appears it operates quite a bit  differently than a standard attitude indicator.



Has anyone flown with the  TruTrak ADI? Could you describe your thoughts on how it flew compared to a  standard AI?? Did you like flying it?? Do you think it is worth it??  Etc??



Thanks



Mark



   [quote][b]

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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: TruTrak ADI

I have.  I had it in another aircraft as a temporary replacement for a "real" AI and it was definitely different.  I never did get use to flying precisely by it as opposed to a real AI before I removed it (real AI was back from overhaul) but it has given me pause on using it in the RV-10.  I think I will trade it in on my True Trak autopilot purchase and get a real electrically powered AI.  Maybe it just required getting used to.  While theoretically it offers the same information as a Turn coordinator plus vertical speed, I can fly with the turn coordinator much better than I can with the ADI.  Over time maybe that would change.  Results inconclusive but definitely not a slam dunk replacement.



William

http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

-- Dr. Suess 



------

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: TruTrak ADI

I'm inclined to sit squarely on the fence about the ADI.  It's not

a bad instrument, considering it gives you GPS track, and bank,

and first instantaneous pitch indication....transitioning to

more of a rate of climb.  It also will warn you if your airspeed

slows near stall, so it has that for safety too.

So there is some good stuff there.



But, then there are the downsides.

1) If you DO get it with the internal GPS, then you have another

antenna to deal with.  If you DO NOT, then it's really not going

to give you much for GPS track unless you have it hooked to

a GPS that will survive an electric-out situation in the panel

anyway....so you may not actually get to use that TRK indication

when you need it unless you're careful to hook it up the way

you need.



2) It lacks the skid ball, like the TruTrak Turn-n-bank has.



3) It costs much more than a Turn-N-Bank



4) While I can't argue that if you're climbing, you're not worried

about stalling your way to the ground, it really isn't true

attitude being displayed.  The second you pitch up or down, it is,

but then it's a VSI.  If you're looking for real attitude, then

that isn't going to give it to you.  That said, it's still going

to give you tools to keep your butt alive, because if you're

not descending, you're not stalled out and headed for the ground,

either.



The thing is, for a strictly backup instrument, I found that since

my GNS480 was on my E-Bus, that I had TRK already, and you have

GPS altitude if you want. And of course you still have airspeed

to use as reference, and altimeter, so you know if you're

descending, or slowing in a stall.  You just can't tell your

pitch attitude.  But angle of the nose to the horizon isn't the

most important thing to know.  Keeping the wings level is

super important though.  So, considering how MUCH stuff you

have with a GPS+TNB+ASI+ALT, if you have all of those as

backups, the added value of some of the features the ADI has

gets to be less important.  It's also a much longer instrument,

that I found just barely makes it from the front panel to the

subpanel.  So from many perspectives, although I now own and

fly the ADI, I would have been just as happy with the TNB,

myself.  If it had a skid ball, it would be a good improvement

too.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

William Curtis wrote:

[quote] 

 <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>

 

 I have.  I had it in another aircraft as a temporary replacement for

 a "real" AI and it was definitely different.  I never did get use to

 flying precisely by it as opposed to a real AI before I removed it

 (real AI was back from overhaul) but it has given me pause on using

 it in the RV-10.  I think I will trade it in on my True Trak

 autopilot purchase and get a real electrically powered AI.  Maybe it

 just required getting used to.  While theoretically it offers the

 same information as a Turn coordinator plus vertical speed, I can fly

 with the turn coordinator much better than I can with the ADI.  Over

 time maybe that would change.  Results inconclusive but definitely

 not a slam dunk replacement.

 

 William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ "Be who you are and say what you

 feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

 mind." -- Dr. Suess

 

 ------

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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: TruTrak ADI

The 3" version does have the ball.  Just not enough room for it  

according to TruTrak, I guess, on the 2" version.

We have used it alongside the Dynon for 430 hours in N256H.  The only  

time they didn't agree was when my dad picked up a little ice before  

he had a heated pitot and lost attitude on the Dynon (which went  

grayscale, fortunately, to let him know not to trust it), and when he  

noticed that the ADI disagreed, he followed the ADI.  It gets its  

"attitude" stability from the pitot-static system, but if it loses  

that it gets it from the internal GPS, which is a nice backup,  

especially if you lose power and can't heat your pitot.  He wasn't in  

thick soup, but it would have saved his hide if he had been.  By the  

way, the next flight he had a heated pitot, if it helps those of you  

on the fence in deciding whether or not to get one.  He was in light  

IFR and certainly didn't intend to get into icing, but it can happen.   

The ADI is a fair bit cheaper than any electric AI that I have seen.

I agree with Tim that it is too bad to have to have a separate  

antenna, but it is nice to have one instrument that is completely  

independent of the rest of the system (if you have the backup battery).

do not archive

Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694

On Jan 31, 2008, at 7:47 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

[quote] 

 I'm inclined to sit squarely on the fence about the ADI.  It's not

 a bad instrument, considering it gives you GPS track, and bank,

 and first instantaneous pitch indication....transitioning to

 more of a rate of climb.  It also will warn you if your airspeed

 slows near stall, so it has that for safety too.

 So there is some good stuff there.

 But, then there are the downsides.

 1) If you DO get it with the internal GPS, then you have another

 antenna to deal with.  If you DO NOT, then it's really not going

 to give you much for GPS track unless you have it hooked to

 a GPS that will survive an electric-out situation in the panel

 anyway....so you may not actually get to use that TRK indication

 when you need it unless you're careful to hook it up the way

 you need.

 2) It lacks the skid ball, like the TruTrak Turn-n-bank has.

 3) It costs much more than a Turn-N-Bank

 4) While I can't argue that if you're climbing, you're not worried

 about stalling your way to the ground, it really isn't true

 attitude being displayed.  The second you pitch up or down, it is,

 but then it's a VSI.  If you're looking for real attitude, then

 that isn't going to give it to you.  That said, it's still going

 to give you tools to keep your butt alive, because if you're

 not descending, you're not stalled out and headed for the ground,

 either.

 The thing is, for a strictly backup instrument, I found that since

 my GNS480 was on my E-Bus, that I had TRK already, and you have

 GPS altitude if you want. And of course you still have airspeed

 to use as reference, and altimeter, so you know if you're

 descending, or slowing in a stall.  You just can't tell your

 pitch attitude.  But angle of the nose to the horizon isn't the

 most important thing to know.  Keeping the wings level is

 super important though.  So, considering how MUCH stuff you

 have with a GPS+TNB+ASI+ALT, if you have all of those as

 backups, the added value of some of the features the ADI has

 gets to be less important.  It's also a much longer instrument,

 that I found just barely makes it from the front panel to the

 subpanel.  So from many perspectives, although I now own and

 fly the ADI, I would have been just as happy with the TNB,

 myself.  If it had a skid ball, it would be a good improvement

 too.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 William Curtis wrote:

> 

> <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>

> I have.  I had it in another aircraft as a temporary replacement for

> a "real" AI and it was definitely different.  I never did get use to

> flying precisely by it as opposed to a real AI before I removed it

> (real AI was back from overhaul) but it has given me pause on using

> it in the RV-10.  I think I will trade it in on my True Trak

> autopilot purchase and get a real electrically powered AI.  Maybe it

> just required getting used to.  While theoretically it offers the

> same information as a Turn coordinator plus vertical speed, I can fly

> with the turn coordinator much better than I can with the ADI.  Over

> time maybe that would change.  Results inconclusive but definitely

> not a slam dunk replacement.

> William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ "Be who you are and say what you

> feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

> mind." -- Dr. Suess

> ------

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sam.marlow

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 99

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: TruTrak ADI

We have one in our RV10, I wouldn't do it again, it's difficult to use, in hard IFR.

Sam Marlow

---- FLAGSTONE <flagstone(at)cox.net> wrote: 



=============

Hi:



I've been looking at the TruTrak ADI (Attitude Direction Indicator) as a back-up for my panel. I was reading the manual and it appears it operates quite a bit differently than a standard attitude indicator.



Has anyone flown with the TruTrak ADI? Could you describe your thoughts on how it flew compared to a standard AI?? Did you like flying it?? Do you think it is worth it?? Etc??



Thanks



Mark

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: TruTrak ADI

One thing as an aside....



The ADI operates very much like a "flight path marker" like

is used on my Chelton.  However, my Chelton displays true

pitch angle for the horizon display, so in that regards you're

getting the best of all worlds with the Chelton display, whereas

the ADI you're correct, could get confusing because you're

not seeing the big picture.



Now, as a bit of trivia....  The TruTrak EFIS is built to

operate exactly like the ADI.  It uses the same non-gyro

operation as the ADI, and also does not use any magnetic heading

sensor whatsoever.  It relies solely on GPS TRK to give heading.

And, while it gives a quick instantaneous pitch display, it

transitions more to a VSI based display over time.

So basically, if you love the ADI, you may like the EFIS, but

if you have a philosophical disagreement with one of them,

the other will cause you the same.  It's the fact that there

is no magnetic heading on it at all that threw me for a big

loop.  I understand that the world can work well with just

a good TRK reading, but you can't count on GPS to be 100%.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Barrett wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello Mark et al,

 

 I'm a lurker on your site and thought I'd chime in with an opinion.  I am

 nearly finished with my Lancair IVP and  strongly considered the ADI by Tru

 Trak until I understood how it works.  My plane will be all electric with 2

 screen Chelton MFD panels and the ADI could have conceivably doubled for a

 couple of back up steam gauges.  That was an exciting concept.  

 

 The deciding factor was that because of the VSI input mimicking attitude

 function, I felt that the display could be very confusing and disorienting

 in the very spot where I would need it the most to survive a total failure

 of the MFD system.  I think it would take a complete retraining in order to

 safely fly a high performance airplane in emergency conditions and I would

 have to maintain proficiency in that retraining. For almost 50 years I've

 been used to knowing exactly what an AI instrument is telling me and I'm not

 comfortable with a gauge that looks like an AI but really isn't. 

 

 For that reason I reluctantly passed and accepted the standard 2" 6 pack for

 "save my butt" backup.  By the way I am a complete rah rah fan of the Tru

 Trak autopilot and the folks who came up with it.  I purchased what turned

 out to be prototype servos when the company started and they graciously

 replaced them shortly afterwards when they found they needed more robust

 ones for the IVP.  Good guys and brilliant visionaries.

 

 

 Regards,

 

 John Barrett, CEO

 Barrett/Garrett Enterprises, Inc.

 PO Box 428

 Port Hadlock, WA 98339

 www.carbinge.com

  

 

 

 

 

 Hi:

 

 I've been looking at the TruTrak ADI (Attitude Direction Indicator) as a

 back-up

 for my panel. I was reading the manual and it appears it operates quite a

 bit

 differently than a standard attitude indicator.

 

 Has anyone flown with the TruTrak ADI? Could you describe your thoughts on

 how

 it flew compared to a standard AI?? Did you like flying it?? Do you think it

 is

 worth it?? Etc??

 

 Thanks

 

 Mark

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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: TruTrak ADI

Has anyone though of using or had any experience with the Egyro http://www.pcflightsystems.com/EGYRO2.htm ? Aviation consumer did a review on it a few years ago and liked it, but I haven't heard much feedback on it. 

  

 Vern (#324 windows) 





   

 > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:35:57 -0500

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: TruTrak ADI

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "sam(at)fr8dog.net" <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>

 

 We have one in our RV10, I wouldn't do it again, it's difficult to use, in hard IFR.

 Sam Marlow

 ---- FLAGSTONE <flagstone(at)cox.net> wrote: 

 

 =============

 Hi:

 

 I've been looking at the TruTrak ADI (Attitude Direction Indicator) as a back-up for my panel. I was reading the manual and it appears it operates quite a bit differently than a standard attitude indicator.

 

 Has anyone flown with the TruTrak ADI? Could you describe your thoughts on how it flew compared to a standard AI?? Did you like flying it?? Do you think it is worth it?? Etc??

 

 Thanks

 

 Mark

=======================
	


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