Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Starter Choice

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: Starter Choice

[quote]I am changing the engine on my One Design. I am removing an O-320-E3D and fitting an IO-360-B1B (180 hp regular compression). I will be fitting an Odyssey 17ah battery. The 320 has a B&C starter that has been used for around 100 hours, it also has 122 teeth on the starter ring. The 360 has a Sky-tec PM starter (and is brand new and is painted bright red) and a 149 tooth starter ring. The airplane is fitted with a B&C SD-8 generator so cannot guarantee a fully charged battery every time. I have heard stories that permanent magnet starters and Odyssey batteries do not get on, and that starting is often slow, especially the first couple of blades. All things being equal I would swap the starter and the starter ring, but that’s not possible as the part numbers of the starter rings between the two engines are different – I don’t know the precise differences, and I would have to paint the old starter ring. To be able to use the B&C starter on the new engine B&C recommend I change out the ring gear, or return the starter for overhaul ($310 plus shipping from Europe). And will have to change something on the old engine. So my questions is, am I right to be concerned about the long term abilities of a Skytec PM starter and the Odyssey battery to provide reliable starting? Does anyone have any experience with this combination? Regards, Peter[b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Starter Choice

there are many Io360's and Skytec PM starters used mainly  on Vans aircraft...In fact the Odyssy is that standard supplied battery...Never  heard of anyone having an issue...Mine works just fine.

  

 Now, Skytecs will break if they suffer kickback, My emags  avoid this by allowing three blades to pass through before firing...This can be  over ridden if you ever had to hand prop.

  

 But generally the odyssy/Skytech combo has a long relaible  track record.

  

 Frank

 RV7a Io360



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter  Pengilly

Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:20 PM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Starter  Choice

 

 [quote]I am changing the engine on my One Design. I am removing an O-320-E3D and fitting an IO-360-B1B (180 hp regular compression). I will be fitting an Odyssey 17ah battery. The 320 has a B&C starter that has been used for around 100 hours, it also has 122 teeth on the starter ring. The 360 has a Sky-tec PM starter (and is brand new and is painted bright red) and a 149 tooth starter ring. The airplane is fitted with a B&C SD-8 generator so cannot guarantee a fully charged battery every time. I have heard stories that permanent magnet starters and Odyssey batteries do not get on, and that starting is often slow, especially the first couple of blades. All things being equal I would swap the starter and the starter ring, but that’s not possible as the part numbers of the starter rings between the two engines are different – I don’t know the precise differences, and I would have to paint the old starter ring. To be able to use the B&C starter on the new engine B&C recommend I change out the ring gear, or return the starter for overhaul ($310 plus shipping from Europe). And will have to change something on the old engine. So my questions is, am I right to be concerned about the long term abilities of a Skytec PM starter and the Odyssey battery to provide reliable starting? Does anyone have any experience with this combination? Regards, Peter



ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

mcculleyja(at)starpower.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: Starter Choice

Peter,



I have over 500 flight hours on my O-360 with a skytec permanent magnet 

starter and not one moment of problem with just an Odyssey 17 AH battery 

and a B&C SD-8 permanent magnet alternator.



Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Peter Pengilly wrote:



I am changing the engine on my One Design. I am removing an O-320-E3D and

fitting an IO-360-B1B (180 hp regular compression). I will be fitting an

Odyssey 17ah battery. The 320 has a B&C starter that has been used for 

around

100 hours, it also has 122 teeth on the starter ring. The 360 has a Sky-tec

PM starter (and is brand new and is painted bright red) and a 149 tooth 

starter

ring. The airplane is fitted with a B&C SD-8 generator so cannot 

guarantee a

fully charged battery every time.



I have heard stories that permanent magnet starters and Odyssey batteries

do not get on, and that starting is often slow, especially the first couple

of blades. All things being equal I would swap the starter and the starter

ring, but that’s not possible as the part numbers of the starter rings 

between

the two engines are different – I don’t know the precise differences, and I

would have to paint the old starter ring. To be able to use the B&C 

starter on

the new engine B&C recommend I change out the ring gear, or return the 

starter

for overhaul ($310 plus shipping from    Europe   ). And will have to 

change

something on the old engine.



So my questions is, am I right to be concerned about the long term abilities

of a Skytec PM starter and the Odyssey battery to provide reliable 

starting?



Does anyone have any experience with this combination?



Regards, Peter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Starter Choice

Frank & Jim,



Thanks for your advice - do nothing is an option!



Peter



--

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: Starter Choice

At 10:19 PM 3/4/2008 +0000, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am changing the engine on my One Design. I am removing an O-320-E3D and 

fitting an IO-360-B1B (180 hp regular compression). I will be fitting an 

Odyssey 17ah battery. The 320 has a B&C starter that has been used for 

around 100 hours, it also has 122 teeth on the starter ring. The 360 has a 

Sky-tec PM starter (and is brand new and is painted bright red) and a 149 

tooth starter ring. The airplane is fitted with a B&C SD-8 generator so 

cannot guarantee a fully charged battery every time.


	


   Size of the alternator certainly influences how

   well your battery is charged at shutdown. But judicious

   stewardship of stored energy from the battery after

   to back off the throttle for approach to landing can

   go a long way toward mitigating the effects.



   From an energy perspective, cranking an engine takes

   perhaps 5% of the total energy stored on your battery.

   If you use say 20% off the top during descent and

   taxi to parking, cranking performance from 100% charge

   versus 80% charge would not be terribly noticable.



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I have heard stories that permanent magnet starters and Odyssey batteries 

do not get on, and that starting is often slow, especially the first 

couple of blades. All things being equal I would swap the starter and the 

starter ring, but that s not possible as the part numbers of the starter 

rings between the two engines are different  I don t know the precise 

differences, and I would have to paint the old starter ring. To be able to 

use the B&C starter on the new engine B&C recommend I change out the ring 

gear, or return the starter for overhaul ($310 plus shipping from Europe). 

And will have to change something on the old engine.

So my questions is, am I right to be concerned about the long term 

abilities of a Skytec PM starter and the Odyssey battery to provide 

reliable starting? Does anyone have any experience with this combination?


	




   This question stands on a whole lot of variables

   both in the observed performance of your as-installed

   starter/proposed battery -AND- the as-installed/

   demonstrated battery of those who would hope to

   advise you.



   Let's consider another approach that takes advantage

   of a demonstrated experiment using your equipment.

   What are the risks of leaving the present starter in

   place and going ahead with the installation?



   EVERY starter system benefits from wound-field

   starter motors in terms of cranking under worst

   case conditions. However, there are thousands of

   PM starters in service where users report satisfactory

   performance to their needs.



   I'll suggest that if time and costs to get

   your new engine installed are to be minimized, there's

   little risk in leaving the system configured as you've

   described. In fact, I'll suggest there is an advantage

   for leaving the configuration alone. You have a

   significant task for changing out the engine and getting

   everything tight and tuned up. Why not get these tasks

   done while being sensitive to starter performance

   for the purpose of answering your own question . . .

   and then having some experimental data to share

   with the rest of us?



   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum