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Sprung Tailwheel
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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

It's soft rubber, Jim. And you might be right about the bearings,  

although when armed with the dimensions that I had, the local bearing  

distributor could only supply ones with a 5/8" inner diameter. It  

seems like others have found  bearing that worked without the sleeve.

Just for the record, that bearing distributor that I visited has gone  

belly up, but that's not surprising in Michigan.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/475+ hrs



On Mar 12, 2008, at 12:06 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn,  Is that tailwheel soft rubber or actually a pneumatic  

 wheel?  As far as the bearings go,  I would bet that it wouldn't be  

 to hard to find  bearings that fit the wheel and have a 1/2" center  

 so it would fit the Maule axle.  Thanks,  Jim Chuk  Avids  MN



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Sprung Tailwheel

 > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:54:21 -0400

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > That's the one. Yes, get the longlife bearings from them or from a

 > local bearing dealer, as the one's shipped with the wheel are poor

 > quality...A word of warning....the description says "bearings" but

 > that means one bearing, and you will need to order two, unless

 > they've changed their tune since I ordered mine. You'll have to make

 > a sleeve for the bearings to fit the Maule axle. I used a length of

 > 4130 tubing, Spruce part number 03-03900, which will have to be

 > polished a few thousandths (mine did anyway) to fit the bearings.  

 I'm

 > pretty sure that the bore of this tubing fit the axle just right.

 > You'll have to forgive Spruce for their lack of full explanations of

 > each of their products...they try hard (I'm being kind here...), but

 > they miss the mark a lot. : )

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/475+ hrs

 >

 >

 > On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:35 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 >

 > > Lynn, I see p/n 06-03600 Homebuilders 6" replacement wheel $29.90

 > > page 247 Aircraft spruce. Is that the one? Is it for a 1/2" axle.

 > > It lists "longlife" bearings for $4.65 and states that they are

 > > superior to the standard bearings. It doesn't state solid or

 > > pneumatic, which is odd?

 > >

 > > Pat Reilly

 > > Mod 3 Rebuild

 > > Rockford,IL

 > >

 > > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > > Subject: Re: Sprung Tailwheel

 > > > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:57:20 -0400

 > > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > > >

 > > > 

 <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > > >

 > > > I had already changed over from the solid Maule tailwheel to  

 the 6"

 > > > "Homebuilders Special Tailwheel" as Spruce calls them. It is  

 a much

 > > > softer tire than the Maule, weighs less, and has less contact  

 area

 > > > with the ground than the Maule. The bearings that come with the

 > > > Spruce wheel are terrible though.

 > > > By the way, I like the looks of your pneumatic job, Jim.

 > > >

 > > > Lynn Matteson

 > > > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > > > flying w/475+ hrs

 > > >

 > > >

 > > > On Mar 11, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:

 > > >

 > > > > I'm just wondering if those that have had the tailwheel spring

 > > > > break were all running the solid rubber Maule tailwheel. I had

 > > > > that wheel on my Avid MK IV, and you can sure feel every  

 little

 > > > > bump through the fusaloge. I would guess that those sharp  

 jolts

 > > > > fatigue the spring. Last summer I replaced the wheel with a  

 cheep

 > > > > 6' pneumatic castor wheel and it was much smoother, the tire

 > > really

 > > > > soaks up lots of the sharp jolts. I got some better sealed

 > > > > bearings and put them in the wheel. It would have been nice if

 > > > > Maule made a replacement 6' pneumatic tire but they don't.  

 This

 > > > > worked for me. Jim======

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > >

 > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-

 > > =================================== _-

 > > forums.matronics.com_-

 > > =================================== _-

 > > contribution_-

 > > ===================================

 &g=======================

 >

 >

 >



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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

Lynn, I ordered the 3 leaf spring from John Mcbean yesterday. I have the Maule 6" solid tail wheel. If the Aircraft Spruce is also solid rubber, I might as well stick with the wheel I have. I thought a pnuematic tire might be a little lighter and give me a little more cushion.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL

 [quote]  From: thesupe(at)hotmail.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Sprung Tailwheel

Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:06:06 +0000



   .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass EC_body.hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}  Lynn,  Is that tailwheel soft rubber or actually a pneumatic wheel?  As far as the bearings go,  I would bet that it wouldn't be to hard to find  bearings that fit the wheel and have a 1/2" center so it would fit the Maule axle.  Thanks,  Jim Chuk  Avids  MN



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Sprung Tailwheel

 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:54:21 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 That's the one. Yes, get the longlife bearings from them or from a 

 local bearing dealer, as the one's shipped with the wheel are poor 

 quality...A word of warning....the description says "bearings" but 

 that means one bearing, and you will need to order two, unless 

 they've changed their tune since I ordered mine. You'll have to make 

 a sleeve for the bearings to fit the Maule axle. I used a length of 

 4130 tubing, Spruce part number 03-03900, which will have to be 

 polished a few thousandths (mine did anyway) to fit the bearings. I'm 

 pretty sure that the bore of this tubing fit the axle just right.

 You'll have to forgive Spruce for their lack of full explanations of 

 each of their products...they try hard (I'm being kind here...), but 

 they miss the mark a lot. : )

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/475+ hrs

 

 

 On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:35 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 

 > Lynn, I see p/n 06-03600 Homebuilders 6" replacement wheel $29.90 

 > page 247 Aircraft spruce. Is that the one? Is it for a 1/2" axle. 

 > It lists "longlife" bearings for $4.65 and states that they are 

 > superior to the standard bearings. It doesn't state solid or 

 > pneumatic, which is odd?

 >

 > Pat Reilly

 > Mod 3 Rebuild

 > Rockford,IL

 >

 > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > Subject: Re: Sprung Tailwheel

 > > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:57:20 -0400

 > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > >

 > > I had already changed over from the solid Maule tailwheel to the 6"

 > > "Homebuilders Special Tailwheel" as Spruce calls them. It is a much

 > > softer tire than the Maule, weighs less, and has less contact area

 > > with the ground than the Maule. The bearings that come with the

 > > Spruce wheel are terrible though.

 > > By the way, I like the looks of your pneumatic job, Jim.

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > > flying w/475+ hrs

 > >

 > >

 > > On Mar 11, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:

 > >

 > > > I'm just wondering if those that have had the tailwheel spring

 > > > break were all running the solid rubber Maule tailwheel. I had

 > > > that wheel on my Avid MK IV, and you can sure feel every little

 > > > bump through the fusaloge. I would guess that those sharp jolts

 > > > fatigue the spring. Last summer I replaced the wheel with a cheep

 > > > 6' pneumatic castor wheel and it was much smoother, the tire 

 > really

 > > > soaks up lots of the sharp jolts. I got some better sealed

 > > > bearings and put them in the wheel. It would have been nice if

 > > > Maule made a replacement 6' pneumatic tire but they don't. This

 > > > worked for me. Jim======

 > >

 > >

 > >

 >

 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 > =================================== _- 

 > forums.matronics.com_- 

 > =================================== _- 

 > contribution_- 

 > ===================================

&g=======================
	


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[b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: patrick reilly [patreilly43(at)hotmail.com]

 I have the Maule 6" solid tail wheel. If the Aircraft Spruce is also solid rubber, I 

 might as well stick with the wheel I have.


	


I had the Maule and changed to the Aircraft Spruce Homebuilders and it's a much softer ride on my model 3, Patrick.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

buddcr(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

Hi all,



I know a lot of guys out there have broken  there tailwheel springs with the one and two leaf steel springs that came with some of the older kits. My question is.  Has there been known failures of the Grove aluminum tailwheel spring? I know Grove doesn't make them anymore. However, this doesn't mean they had failure problems. They just might not have sold as well as the steel and therefore discontinued them? There are a bunch of the aluminum springs out there including the one I have on my aircraft.  I agree the aluminum spring doesn't flex/give as much as the steel ones do. Therefore giving you a rougher ride. However, I can live with this if that is the only problem. If there have been known failures of the aluminum springs, then I'm going to replace mine out for  a 3 leaf steel setup.



Chris Budd

Kitfox IV Speedster w/VW 2180

Flying 220+ hrs



       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

The Spruce tailwheel is pretty soft, and gives a much more gentle  

ride, I and others have found. Yes it is solid, but it is softer.

I've thought about taking the helper spring out of my 3-leaf pack,  

thinking it may soften the ride, and sent an email to John McBean  

questioning that move, but didn't get an answer.

I don't think that removing the helper spring would hurt the safety  

of the 3-leaf'er, but I could be wrong. If it was taken out, the two  

main leafs would still give the redundancy that is important, I believe.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs

On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:38 AM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, I ordered the 3 leaf spring from John Mcbean yesterday. I  

 have the Maule 6" solid tail wheel. If the Aircraft Spruce is also  

 solid rubber, I might as well stick with the wheel I have. I  

 thought a pnuematic tire might be a little lighter and give me a  

 little more cushion.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

Chris, I've been on this list since long before  Grove started producing the spring.  I can only recall one failure  here.  There was much discussion why it failed and as I recall, the owner  felt that it was due to the way it was mounted.  Others have since  fabricated saddle type mounts so that the spring can't move around.   Personally, I feel that he just happened to get a bad one.  Then again, you  never know how people are going to treat their airplanes, some are very rough on  them and others are not.  

 With the Grove, I know of no trends that tend to  make me believe that the spring itself is at fault.  One common complaint  though was that it is very stiff, and better suited for the heavier  models.  Also, a pneumatic tire, as others have stated, helps whatever  spring you are using.

 I don't know why Grove stopped producing  them.  Probably was from lack of sales.

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP  355+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  progress."

- Joseph Joubert

  

 

 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

Mike, Thanks for the advice.  Do not archieve.

  

 Pat Reilly



 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:23:18 +0100

 From: michel(at)online.no

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Sprung Tailwheel

 

 > From: patrick reilly [patreilly43(at)hotmail.com]

 > I have the Maule 6" solid tail wheel. If the Aircraft Spruce is also solid rubber, I 

 > might as well stick with the wheel I have.

 

 I had the Maule and changed to the Aircraft Spruce Homebuilders and it's a much softer ride on my model 3, Patrick.

 

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 

 

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  [quote][b]

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

What breakage reports.  Have not heard of one using the aluminum spring.  Clint

 [quote]  From: Catz631(at)aol.com

Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:14:55 -0400

Subject: Re: Sprung Tailwheel

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

  I too had the aluminum tailspring but found it too rough for my grass runway (and all the breakage reports) so I sold it on EBAY and installed the 3 leaf spring ,removed the Maule tailwheel, and installed a Matco tailwheel.The weight difference for the combination was less than 1/2 pound. I now have a flexable tailwheel that rides much better on grass and pavement!

                                   Dick Maddux

                                   Fox 4-1200

                                   Pensacola,Fl

   It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.

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arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

p://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

Catz631(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:03 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

Check out Sportflight you will see a picture of a broken alum spring there.

                                                

                                                           Dick Maddux

                                                           Fox 4-1200 



It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.

  [quote][b]

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

That's the one I was talking about.  Thanks for hunting it down.

 Deke

 http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1061820002

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

My tailwheel spring...the original steel 2-leaf...broke right where  

the helper/booster leaf contacted the ONE main leaf. I'm thinking  

that maybe the radius of the end of that helper/booster leaf might be  

made a bit larger to spread the contact area of that leaf.

I know this has nothing to do with the alum spring, other than the  

picture clearly shows the break occurs at the last point of contact  

with something that doesn't give.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs



On Mar 13, 2008, at 8:25 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] That's the one I was talking about.  Thanks for hunting it down.

 Deke

 http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl? 

 action=view&epoch=1061820002

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

With all the talk of tail wheel springs and solid tailwheels is everyone trying to say that the springs and tailwheels supplied with the kits will not hold up with average use and that they may be defective and should be relpaced before we fly the airplane for the first time? ---Leon Morris/Classic 4/60%/Flower Mound,TX

---- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote: 

[quote] 

 My tailwheel spring...the original steel 2-leaf...broke right where  

 the helper/booster leaf contacted the ONE main leaf. I'm thinking  

 that maybe the radius of the end of that helper/booster leaf might be  

 made a bit larger to spread the contact area of that leaf.

 I know this has nothing to do with the alum spring, other than the  

 picture clearly shows the break occurs at the last point of contact  

 with something that doesn't give.

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/480+ hrs

 On Mar 13, 2008, at 8:25 AM, fox5flyer wrote:

 > That's the one I was talking about.  Thanks for hunting it down.

 > Deke

 > http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl? 

 > action=view&epoch=1061820002

 > ---

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

That is interesting.  What tailwheel was he using, anyone know.  Clint



 [quote]  From: fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Sprung Tailwheel

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:25:06 -0400



     That's the one I was talking about.  Thanks for hunting it down.

 Deke

 http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1061820002

 [quote] ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

Well, maybe not the FIRST time....I'm kidding....but the reason I  

switched to the softer tailwheel was several people told me that it  

gave a softer/smoother ride. I went one step further in  

reasoning...it weighs less, and I knew that I was going to be  

installing a lighter engine, and that less weight back there would be  

a good thing. Lets face it, the Maule tailwheel was first intended  

for a heavier plane, so maybe it was overkill for the Kitfox in the  

first place. Why did Skystar/Denney use it initially? If I might  

surmise, they were trying to offer a kit airplane at a reasonable  

cost, and probably ordered steerable tailwheels from the lowest  

bidder...I'm guessing, remember....and Maule came in low...no pun  

intended. As far as the springs are concerned, mine lasted 487 rough,  

69-year-old-rookie, learning-to-fly, turf landings before it let go.  

 From what I've gathered, that's a lifetime of landings for a lot of  

pilots, most of whom land on smooth paved runways. I don't know how  

it stacks up against other aircraft. And remember, someone here said  

that they probably didn't heat treat the first springs all that well.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs

On Mar 13, 2008, at 1:02 PM, <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com> wrote:



[quote] 



    With all the talk of tail wheel springs and solid tailwheels is  

 everyone trying to say that the springs and tailwheels supplied  

 with the kits will not hold up with average use and that they may  

 be defective and should be relpaced before we fly the airplane for  

 the first time? ---Leon Morris/Classic 4/60%/Flower Mound,TX

 ---- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

> 

>

> My tailwheel spring...the original steel 2-leaf...broke right where

> the helper/booster leaf contacted the ONE main leaf. I'm thinking

> that maybe the radius of the end of that helper/booster leaf might be

> made a bit larger to spread the contact area of that leaf.

> I know this has nothing to do with the alum spring, other than the

> picture clearly shows the break occurs at the last point of contact

> with something that doesn't give.

>

> Lynn Matteson

> Grass Lake, Michigan

> Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

> flying w/480+ hrs

>

> On Mar 13, 2008, at 8:25 AM, fox5flyer wrote:

>

>> That's the one I was talking about.  Thanks for hunting it down.

>> Deke

>> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?

>> action=view&epoch=1061820002

>> ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: Sprung Tailwheel

At 02:42 PM 3/13/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   From what I've gathered, that's a lifetime of landings for a lot of

pilots, most of whom land on smooth paved runways.


	


         I don't know Lynn. When you drop it in from six feet like I 

do, you probably get some good cushioning out of the turf runway. 

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Sprung Tailwheel

I use Mc Beans 3 leaf spring and would highly recommend it as a #1 upgrade if you have one leaf or 2.  They will break in time and when they do most likely your tailwheel will go through rudder and you will be into fabric repairs. and also it might happen that it breaks on take off and you will be flying with it hanging. Still flys ok though. Ask me how i know    



As far as the solid tailwheel,  works fine for me and no worries of flat tires that will ruin you day.   Besides how long are you actually on the ground ?

I run the solids on my nose gear on my Amphibs as well for flat proof operations.   The  solid tailwheels need a sleeve made between the 2 bearings or you will get bearing failure quicker.  I don't think that all tailwheels have a sleeve.

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