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The trials of fitting

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

Though I place myself midway within the range of builders' sense of 

precision in their respective aircraft, I CANNOT BELIEVE the friggin 

time I've spent (and continue to spend) in the process of fitting the 

canopy doors, the hinges, rebates, and shoot bolts to achieve a modest 

fit.



The manual includes an innocuous statement to the effect of "trial fit 

until you're happy"...I've lost count of the trial fits...its been 

indeed a trial...and I've had a number of fits...



Foolish me...thinkin this part of the build would be a quick piece of 

cake...



Fred

A194



..persevering...



do not archive

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

I hear you fred, some of the jobs the manual glosses over in one sentence I

have spent a couple of days fine tuning to get

to an acceptable level before glassing in / attaching etc. Mind you I have

also seen some much faster easier ways to do

some of the jobs to get the same result in the end instead of following the

build manual to the letter.



craig



Do not archive



--

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

Gents,



Days?  How 'bout weeks and months on some simple one line tasks.



But, don't get discouraged.  It will be done and flying one day.   

Right now, it's jJust like eating an elephant.  One bite at a time.



See Y'all in Oshkosh if I can just get over this flu and back to work.



Good building and great flying,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch  

system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod,  

outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing  

incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,  baggage bay in. Fuel system  

complete.  Rotax and Airmaster installed.  Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done.   

Completed the instrument panel install.   Europa interior kit being  

installed.  Installed windows.  Working in -  25 Electrical, 28 Flaps,  

30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing.    

Mostly finishing these days.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117



On Mar 14, 2008, at 18:50, craig bastin wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 I hear you fred, some of the jobs the manual glosses over in one  

 sentence I

 have spent a couple of days fine tuning to get

 to an acceptable level before glassing in / attaching etc. Mind you  

 I have

 also seen some much faster easier ways to do

 some of the jobs to get the same result in the end instead of  

 following the

 build manual to the letter.



 craig



 Do not archive



 --

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

I hope to up by the end of the year, I think $$$ will stop me though as i

cant see me having the money

for the panel till next year, i started late august 07 and am ready to bond

the top on.

I have another saying i prefer to run by, bite off more than you can chew

and chew like hell.



craig



--

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

Fred, 

You have a habit of making me soo happy. Those doors took me 6 months. Including the walk-away and see later days. Felt pretty stupid at times too  So it's kind of nice to see that i am not the only one. But once you are through this, fitting anything else is easy! It's probably the doors stage that made people invent the 90% done 90% to go rule. 

Eh, just keep at it, it's worth it!



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: The trials of fitting

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Trials of fitting, in a word is craftsmanship.

  

 Unless you have built cabinets with curved doors for a living, fitting the  Europa doors or an any aircraft canopy is not an intuitive  task. 

  

 Visualizing the hinge position, alignment and clearances are a learned  craft.

  

 I do a set of doors in 26 hours flat.  But I have done many sets, and  that does not include the time to ensure initial fit.  I always plan 40  hours for doors.  That's a solid week.

  

 Here is a technique I use, to fill in the gaps of that famous line "offer  the part up to the aircraft":

  

 Start by putting the door in the rebate.  If the door needs to be  heated slightly and re-curved to fit the shape, do it slowly and  carefully.  Sometimes I heat a door to shape,  put a strap  around the door flexing it beyond where it needs to be and allow to cool and  refit until it flits flawlessly.  It takes time, like steaming a wood  door.

  

 Once the door fits the rebate snug, I take a 36 inch long aluminum  yardstick or equivalent and draw a line across the top of the fuselage aligned  where the hinge line edges are in the fuselage rebate.  This line will then  be transcribed down across the side of the rebate and will  allow hinge initial placement.  The pin is just about on the line on  the fuselage rebate for the tang.  I like the pin to be slightly  inboard.

  

 Then set the door in the rebate and extend the line along the door  tang.  Transcribe the line down to the bottom of the tang slot in the  rebate and see how the hinge will align.  

  

 Grab some clay and put the hinges on the fuselage rebate.  Squeeze the  door down, lift off and align the hinge on your marks.  Put a drop or two  of super glue/or 5 minute epoxy on the hinge side facing the door and  shoot accelerator on the tang and replace the door.  Clamp in place and  allow the glue to set up.  The hinge should be aligned.

  

 Pick up the door, and place it vertically in the rebate, allowing 36  inches of opening for a start.  Trim the tang until the hinge will fit back  on the clay level just set.  Close the door mark and trim until the  gap (almost 3/8 inch between the tang and fuselage) is pleasing to the  eye.  

  

 Replace the door and check hinge alignment on the tang.   Re-accomplish until all looks right.  Use the straight edge again,  bending it as necessary to the contour to ensure the hinge pins are  aligned with one another on the door...  Make any spacers from metal wood  or glue and re-tack with glue until the door opens and closes cleanly, then  drill.  

  

 Note that because of the top fuselage curvature, the top gap must be made  wider to clear the arc when it opens.  At least 1/4 inch is necessary in  some cases (account for filler and paint)...  

  

 Now fit the hardware and continue as the book calls for.  Once the  hardware is in, trim the door to allow a 1/8 inch gap all around the three  remaining sides.  Figure your top gap to allow 3/32 clearance as the door  is hinged up on the top apex to allow for filler and paint.

  

 Many of you will use the Europa supplied door strut kits.  Again, this  will stiffen the door.  That too must be bent and adjusted until the  curvature of the door is unaffected.  I have a jig that aligns the struts  and all to get my opening and support placement correct, and no it is not for  loaning out.

  

 If the door doesn’t fit well without the glass, it really fits bad once  the glass is in.  Take your time.

  

 It's an airplane.  The canopy/doors typically takes a month to build  to perfection for the average guy.  It doesn't matter if it is an RV,  Zenith, Europa, Glassair, or Jabiru.  Everyone will see the fit of the cowl  and canopy/doors.  If you don't trial fit by putting it on and taking it  off at least eight times, you are probably screwing up and it won't look  good.

  

 I have consulted with the folks at Liberty who have the same  problems on fit and finish of the doors, it all comes down to  craftsmanship.  They know it takes time.

  

 Craftsmanship is what separates us from the other guys who have airplanes  that look like Slot A, joins Tab B then rivet in place spam cans.

  

 That’s the beauty of building your own aircraft, it is a reflection of your  learned craft.

 Bud Yerly

 Custom Flight Creations

  

 ---

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

On Saturday, Mar 15, 2008, at 09:00 US/Pacific, ALAN YERLY wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Trials of fitting, in a word is craftsmanship.

  

 Unless you have built cabinets with curved doors for a living, fitting 

 the Europa doors or an any aircraft canopy is not an intuitive task. 


	


Yerlysan...you are indeed a master and I such a novice...this is said 

with total respect.



It's reassuring to know that a pro plans for 40 hours/door set, I think 

I've been hard at it for about 3 weeks, just this morning succeeding in 

locking the shoot bolts within the fuselage after being satisfied w/ 

the hinge operation. I wish I had had the benefit of your process 

before beginning rather than accepting the build manual as gospel 

(until I hit some dead ends).



Thank you for your comments on gapping, as how to properly allow for 

filler and paint has been something I've been scratching my head about; 

the goal being to have all gaps looking good AND functional after 

getting them back from the painter. I've been really surprised to find 

significant variations in the thickness of the filler/primer on the 

fuselage top in the vicinity of the tang recesses as delivered.



I have one suggestion which may be helpful to others regarding the 

location of the hinges and their alignment. I happened to have a 6' 

length of 3/32" precision ground SS rod (from McMaster-Carr) which I 

temporarily substituted for the hinge pins while locating the hinge 

leaves on the tang. Used in conjunction w/ a straightedge, it really 

simplified alignment.



Fred

A194



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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: The trials of fitting

On Friday, Mar 14, 2008, at 22:21 US/Pacific, josok wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   You have a habit of making me soo happy. Those doors took me 6 months. 

 Including the walk-away and see later days. Felt pretty stupid at 

 times too  So it's kind of nice to see that i am not the only one. 

 But once you are through this, fitting anything else is easy! It's 

 probably the doors stage that made people invent the 90% done 90% to 

 go rule. Eh, just keep at it, it's worth it!


	


Thanks Jos...I appreciate your perspective as one who indeed persevered 

and found it to be worthwhile...yes, those walking away and see later 

days do add up...I feel I'm at one of those stages where one has to 

keep his eye on the ball even when you can't see the ball...Fred



Actually Jos, that was yesterday...Today I managed to get my shoot 

bolts engaged in the fuselage for the first time...the hinges seem to 

work...and I have a hair line gap between top of fuselage and end of 

tang when the doors are closed!



Now...if I can eliminate the 3/32" bulge at the middle of the port side 

door lower edge, I'll be a happy camper!



Fred



PS: Was not able to email you directly off-list...my computer sez 

there's something wrong w/ your address....(?)

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

On Saturday, Mar 15, 2008, at 09:00 US/Pacific, ALAN YERLY wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Trials of fitting, in a word is craftsmanship.

  

  Sometimes I heat a door to shape,  put a strap around the door 

 flexing it beyond where it needs to be and allow to cool and 

 refit until it flits flawlessly.  It takes time, like steaming a wood 

 door.


	


Bud,



When in place within the fuselage rebates, both my doors "bulge" 3/32 

of an inch when measured at the center of the bottom edge. The 

possibility of heat-forming them for a "flawless" fit did not occur to 

me.



Would you opine as to whether or not heating and reforming the doors in 

my case is warranted, and, if so, what would be the recommended 

technique and what temperatures should be optimum?



Thanks,



Fred



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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Fred,

 As long as the glass is not in, use a heat gun to evenly heat the door  frame on the offending edge until too hot to touch but not so hot as to see  deformations.  I have a temp gauge on my VOM which helps me get the temp at  about 120-150 F.  Spring the door 30% beyond the amount and allow to  cool.  Repeat as necessary. 

  

 Doors that sit too long in hot attics and garages do move over time.   I have never had a bulging door but I think I would use a 2x4 on the inside and  a series of blocks and adjustable clamps to bring in the bow.  The key  is to get it too hot to touch and then put the force on the flange and not in  the middle.  Work slow and watch for deformations as you pull.  You  are trying to retrain the glass to be where it was molded.

  

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

On Monday, Mar 17, 2008, at 15:45 US/Pacific, ALAN YERLY wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   As long as the glass is not in, use a heat gun to evenly heat the door 

 frame on the offending edge until too hot to touch but not so hot as 

 to see deformations.  I have a temp gauge on my VOM which helps me get 

 the temp at about 120-150 F.  Spring the door 30% beyond the amount 

 and allow to cool.  Repeat as necessary.


	


Thank you very much Bud...sounds pretty straightforward...I'll have a 

go!



I am wondering, however, just what is a "VOM"?...hope it's not some 

kind of sex toy...



Fred



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DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

Volt-Ohm Meter......there are attachments that use thermocouples to give a  direct temperature reading.

  

 Mike

  

  In a message dated 3/17/2008 5:53:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  fklein(at)orcasonline.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

On    Monday, Mar 17, 2008, at 15:45 US/Pacific, ALAN YERLY wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      As long as the glass is not in, use a heat gun to evenly heat the door    

 frame on the offending edge until too hot to touch but not so    hot as 

 to see deformations.  I have a temp gauge on my VOM which    helps me get 

 the temp at about 120-150 F.  Spring the door 30%    beyond the amount 

 and allow to cool.  Repeat as    necessary.


	


Thank you very much Bud...sounds pretty    straightforward...I'll have a 

go!



I am wondering, however, just    what is a "VOM"?...hope it's not some 

kind of sex    toy...



Fred



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It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.

  [quote][b]

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: The trials of fitting

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Fred,

 VOM = Volt Ohm Meter.  It is the new in speak at my electronics shop  for the Digital Volt Ohm Meters that have Hi Amps DC/AC, ohms, volts and  accessories like temperature, etc.  Some people just like to show  off.  It does not vibrate but has a beeper to test for shorted  circuits.  Sexy to those who spend too much time on technical stuff  maybe.  Oh my, I think I'm getting excited.

  

 On the doors, go slow and take your time.  I put too much heat on one  set and the exterior face expanded to the point where it started to deform  inward on the rear outer section as it was expanding faster than lower  section.  I have used denatured alcohol to cool the door quickly to get it  to set, but letting it cool slowly with the forced deflection allows  it longer to take a set.

  

  

 Bud

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