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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site |
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Yikes! That is some serious damage and it really starts to show the potential of having the offending door hit the HS on the way out. I'm very glad I'm going with Rivetheads blocks rather than the UHMW and hopefully Van will get the picture that this is happening way too often for a cheesy warning light. Interesting this happened back in Sept but (little) word is coming out now. Something smells of lawyer involvement coming. Jesse, who setup the doors on that one, you guys or the owner?
Michael
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site |
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I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Will Peacock; he is the owner of
the aircraft; his partner was flying. The aircraft was built by Saint
Aviation. The aircraft was repaired and is about to start flying again.
Someone has come up with another latching mechanism and he has indicated he
will send a picture of same. I will post when I get it. The apparent problem
again was the rear pin but no one is definite or has a certain tested
solution as yet. The windscreen fiberglass crack and the alternator cowl
strike are from the 4g (as measured by the Dynon) landing. Repairs included
entirely replacing the tailcone. It is my understanding that the doors are
the original as built by Saint Aviation
--
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site |
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When I laminated my door halves, I placed a hardwood blocks for a hardpoint in the square space above where the front nylon pin block is located. The idea was to have a place where I can put a locking latch to lock my doors. I intend to use a latch just like the one used on the baggage door.
The latch will anchore the front of the door after the standard latch pins close the door. I am thinking that even with the standard Vans latch pins engaged and then this latch closed, that in the event that there is some form of missalighment and the standard vans pins dissengage , this latch will keep the airstream from lifting the front edge of the door and pulling the door off.
I am still working on the Van's pins in the doors and will post once all is completed.
I believe one of the problems is that if there is any wiggle room fore and aft on the door, it could pull the pins out. It seems the further the pins go into the cabin side openings the better.
John G. 409 (WHere does one find a 5/16 tap that will go 2 inches into those aluminum tubes(Pins) without bottoming out on the tap shaft.)
[quote] From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:43:09 -0700
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Will Peacock; he is the owner of
the aircraft; his partner was flying. The aircraft was built by Saint
Aviation. The aircraft was repaired and is about to start flying again.
Someone has come up with another latching mechanism and he has indicated he
will send a picture of same. I will post when I get it. The apparent problem
again was the rear pin but no one is definite or has a certain tested
solution as yet. The windscreen fiberglass crack and the alternator cowl
strike are from the 4g (as measured by the Dynon) landing. Repairs included
entirely replacing the tailcone. It is my understanding that the doors are
the original as built by Saint Aviation
--
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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site |
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I ground the shaft of the tap…..
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:14 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
When I laminated my door halves, I placed a hardwood blocks for a hardpoint in the square space above where the front nylon pin block is located. The idea was to have a place where I can put a locking latch to lock my doors. I intend to use a latch just like the one used on the baggage door.
The latch will anchore the front of the door after the standard latch pins close the door. I am thinking that even with the standard Vans latch pins engaged and then this latch closed, that in the event that there is some form of missalighment and the standard vans pins dissengage , this latch will keep the airstream from lifting the front edge of the door and pulling the door off.
I am still working on the Van's pins in the doors and will post once all is completed.
I believe one of the problems is that if there is any wiggle room fore and aft on the door, it could pull the pins out. It seems the further the pins go into the cabin side openings the better.
John G. 409 (WHere does one find a 5/16 tap that will go 2 inches into those aluminum tubes(Pins) without bottoming out on the tap shaft.)
> From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:43:09 -0700
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
>
> I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Will Peacock; he is the owner of
> the aircraft; his partner was flying. The aircraft was built by Saint
> Aviation. The aircraft was repaired and is about to start flying again.
> Someone has come up with another latching mechanism and he has indicated he
> will send a picture of same. I will post when I get it. The apparent problem
> again was the rear pin but no one is definite or has a certain tested
> solution as yet. The windscreen fiberglass crack and the alternator cowl
> strike are from the 4g (as measured by the Dynon) landing. Repairs included
> entirely replacing the tailcone. It is my understanding that the doors are
> the original as built by Saint Aviation
>
> --
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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site |
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John
I have been reading these threads with interest. I keep coming back to the door arrangement on my PA28 Cherokee. It is very similar in shape & design to the -10 except it has two hinges on the side of the door. Over the past 14 years, I have had the door come ajar perhaps a 5 or 6 times (in large part due to the door handle design). In every case it was a non-event as the door would open only open an inch or two. In fact, I mastered the technique of re-closing the door while in flight – again not a big deal.
In my opinion, the key to eliminating the risk associated with the -10 is to find a way to keep the leading edge of the door secure even if the door pins are not inserted correctly. On the top of the Cherokee door, there is a latch that when closed, pulls the door tight to the door frame with a “hook” type latch mechanism. I suspect this might be a bit more robust than a baggage door latch arrangement.
Just my $0.02
Les Kearney
#40643
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: April-07-08 9:14 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
When I laminated my door halves, I placed a hardwood blocks for a hardpoint in the square space above where the front nylon pin block is located. The idea was to have a place where I can put a locking latch to lock my doors. I intend to use a latch just like the one used on the baggage door.
The latch will anchore the front of the door after the standard latch pins close the door. I am thinking that even with the standard Vans latch pins engaged and then this latch closed, that in the event that there is some form of missalighment and the standard vans pins dissengage , this latch will keep the airstream from lifting the front edge of the door and pulling the door off.
I am still working on the Van's pins in the doors and will post once all is completed.
I believe one of the problems is that if there is any wiggle room fore and aft on the door, it could pull the pins out. It seems the further the pins go into the cabin side openings the better.
John G. 409 (WHere does one find a 5/16 tap that will go 2 inches into those aluminum tubes(Pins) without bottoming out on the tap shaft.)
> From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:43:09 -0700
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
>
> I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Will Peacock; he is the owner of
> the aircraft; his partner was flying. The aircraft was built by Saint
> Aviation. The aircraft was repaired and is about to start flying again.
> Someone has come up with another latching mechanism and he has indicated he
> will send a picture of same. I will post when I get it. The apparent problem
> again was the rear pin but no one is definite or has a certain tested
> solution as yet. The windscreen fiberglass crack and the alternator cowl
> strike are from the 4g (as measured by the Dynon) landing. Repairs included
> entirely replacing the tailcone. It is my understanding that the doors are
> the original as built by Saint Aviation
>
> --
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site |
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Great, another modification which will suck up atleast 15-20 minutes. A file while it is in the drill press? Is there a faster way?
Do not archive
[quote] From: rene(at)felker.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:35:26 -0600
.ExternalClass .EC_shape {;} .ExternalClass .EC_.hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle18 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} (at)page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;}
I ground the shaft of the tap…..
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:14 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
When I laminated my door halves, I placed a hardwood blocks for a hardpoint in the square space above where the front nylon pin block is located. The idea was to have a place where I can put a locking latch to lock my doors. I intend to use a latch just like the one used on the baggage door.
The latch will anchore the front of the door after the standard latch pins close the door. I am thinking that even with the standard Vans latch pins engaged and then this latch closed, that in the event that there is some form of missalighment and the standard vans pins dissengage , this latch will keep the airstream from lifting the front edge of the door and pulling the door off.
I am still working on the Van's pins in the doors and will post once all is completed.
I believe one of the problems is that if there is any wiggle room fore and aft on the door, it could pull the pins out. It seems the further the pins go into the cabin side openings the better.
John G. 409 (WHere does one find a 5/16 tap that will go 2 inches into those aluminum tubes(Pins) without bottoming out on the tap shaft.)
[quote] From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:43:09 -0700
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Will Peacock; he is the owner of
the aircraft; his partner was flying. The aircraft was built by Saint
Aviation. The aircraft was repaired and is about to start flying again.
Someone has come up with another latching mechanism and he has indicated he
will send a picture of same. I will post when I get it. The apparent problem
again was the rear pin but no one is definite or has a certain tested
solution as yet. The windscreen fiberglass crack and the alternator cowl
strike are from the 4g (as measured by the Dynon) landing. Repairs included
entirely replacing the tailcone. It is my understanding that the doors are
the original as built by Saint Aviation
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site |
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Note that the thickness of the actual metal which rotates to engage the frame can be changed on those locksets. Again, aslong as the airstream doesn't get a bite on that leading edge, I don't foresee a another force pulling the door off.
JG
[quote] Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0600
From: kearney(at)shaw.ca
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
.ExternalClass .EC_shape {;} .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle19 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} (at)page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;}
John
I have been reading these threads with interest. I keep coming back to the door arrangement on my PA28 Cherokee. It is very similar in shape & design to the -10 except it has two hinges on the side of the door. Over the past 14 years, I have had the door come ajar perhaps a 5 or 6 times (in large part due to the door handle design). In every case it was a non-event as the door would open only open an inch or two. In fact, I mastered the technique of re-closing the door while in flight – again not a big deal.
In my opinion, the key to eliminating the risk associated with the -10 is to find a way to keep the leading edge of the door secure even if the door pins are not inserted correctly. On the top of the Cherokee door, there is a latch that when closed, pulls the door tight to the door frame with a “hook” type latch mechanism. I suspect this might be a bit more robust than a baggage door latch arrangement.
Just my $0.02
Les Kearney
#40643
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: April-07-08 9:14 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
When I laminated my door halves, I placed a hardwood blocks for a hardpoint in the square space above where the front nylon pin block is located. The idea was to have a place where I can put a locking latch to lock my doors. I intend to use a latch just like the one used on the baggage door.
The latch will anchore the front of the door after the standard latch pins close the door. I am thinking that even with the standard Vans latch pins engaged and then this latch closed, that in the event that there is some form of missalighment and the standard vans pins dissengage , this latch will keep the airstream from lifting the front edge of the door and pulling the door off.
I am still working on the Van's pins in the doors and will post once all is completed.
I believe one of the problems is that if there is any wiggle room fore and aft on the door, it could pull the pins out. It seems the further the pins go into the cabin side openings the better.
John G. 409 (WHere does one find a 5/16 tap that will go 2 inches into those aluminum tubes(Pins) without bottoming out on the tap shaft.)
[quote] From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door separation for those who don't frequent VAF site
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:43:09 -0700
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Will Peacock; he is the owner of
the aircraft; his partner was flying. The aircraft was built by Saint
Aviation. The aircraft was repaired and is about to start flying again.
Someone has come up with another latching mechanism and he has indicated he
will send a picture of same. I will post when I get it. The apparent problem
again was the rear pin but no one is definite or has a certain tested
solution as yet. The windscreen fiberglass crack and the alternator cowl
strike are from the 4g (as measured by the Dynon) landing. Repairs included
entirely replacing the tailcone. It is my understanding that the doors are
the original as built by Saint Aviation
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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