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PLAV8R
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Prior Lake, Minnesota
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 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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Thanks George,
I wanted to confirm. My brother (he and my Dad flew the AMD 601XL S-SLA) had told me that the flaps basically were appr. 1/4 inch higher at the trailing edge than the ailerons.
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_________________
Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
don.dennehey@gmail.com
Prior Lake, Minnesota
Cessna 175 N7656M
Cessna 140 N90123 |
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Jaybannist(at)cs.com
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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I think that it is also very important for all the amateur investigators to keep in mind that an airplane crashing into the ground, or any other rather solid object, will sustain a LOT of damage from the crash alone. How do we know for certain that any broken broken part was broken BEFORE the crash impact; and not BY the crash impact?
Jay in Dallas
Jerry Hey <jerry(at)jerryhey.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
This is just speculation. Amazing how someone can state it as a well
known fact. The cause of the O & O Special crash has never been
determined. This is cautionary for those trying to understand the XL
crashes. Don't jump to conclusions. Jerry
On Apr 25, 2008, at 3:24 PM, John Bolding wrote:
> I'm sure it's been mentioned here before but the wing flutter that
> disassembled Steve Wittman's O&O Special was caused by a small piece
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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Compare pictures 19 and 31 with picture 27 in the Yuba City accident. Look at the rear spar bolt hole. One's torn (19 and 31), and it appears as though the other is not (27). This would jive with what Mark Townsend said, that the rear spar bolts were missing, at least on of them anyway. It appears as though the one slid right out allowing the wing to flap around like crazy, leading the other too eventually ret ripped out once things got interesting.
Picture 29 would have been a good comparison if that guy wasn't standing in the way. It sure looks like the rear spar attach in 27 in unscathed.
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jim.lanier(at)charter.net
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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DO NOT ARCHIVE
http://www.chemroc.com/CH601/Post_crash.zip
Jim
Beckman, Rick wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi, List,
Sorry to be a bother, but I somehow have lost the
addresses to the pictures we are talking about. Can someone help here?
Thanks, Rick.
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William Dominguez
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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Well, if a particular part (like the ailerons) came to rest hundreds of feet from the other part where it was originally attached, there is no need to be an expert to now that the separation did not happened when the parts impacted the ground.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
I think that it is also very important for all the amateur investigators to keep in mind that an airplane crashing into the ground, or any other rather solid object, will sustain a LOT of damage from the crash alone. How do we know for certain that any broken broken part was broken BEFORE the crash impact; and not BY the crash impact?
Jay in Dallas
Jerry Hey [quote][b]
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William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom |
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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At 07:27 AM 4/24/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | Okkay...so what else would explain the results we see?
--
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One thing which has happened in the past is "Resonant
Oscillations". This is the story I heard about Lockheed Electra in
flight breakups.
When a resonant oscillation occurs, the vibration keeps growing in
amplitude until the whole thing breaks. That is where the resonance
comes in. In a non-resonant vibration, the vibration is "Damped"
which means it naturally reduces until it goes away.
One version of the Electra story I heard (alas, there have been
several conflicting stories) was that there was a resonant vibration
in the fuselage. On rare occasions the planes would simply break
apart in flight. The story ends with some brilliant detective work
and a simple change to the structure that eliminated the resonance.
Bill's story of persistent vibrations flying over the power plant
sounds like this kind of problem. By changing his flight conditions
he got the vibration to stop and the problem was over. If this
problem stems from the basic XL design, then perhaps other planes
have found the unfortunate formula for getting this resonant event started.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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That being another possibility, then I would suspect that engine type, prop type, and engine rpm could also contribute. The airframe may be just fine, the engine installation/choice might not, unless the wing/fuselage combo has some odd resonant frequency.
| psm(at)att.net wrote: | At 07:27 AM 4/24/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | Okkay...so what else would explain the results we see?
--
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One thing which has happened in the past is "Resonant
Oscillations". This is the story I heard about Lockheed Electra in
flight breakups.
When a resonant oscillation occurs, the vibration keeps growing in
amplitude until the whole thing breaks. That is where the resonance
comes in. In a non-resonant vibration, the vibration is "Damped"
which means it naturally reduces until it goes away.
One version of the Electra story I heard (alas, there have been
several conflicting stories) was that there was a resonant vibration
in the fuselage. On rare occasions the planes would simply break
apart in flight. The story ends with some brilliant detective work
and a simple change to the structure that eliminated the resonance.
Bill's story of persistent vibrations flying over the power plant
sounds like this kind of problem. By changing his flight conditions
he got the vibration to stop and the problem was over. If this
problem stems from the basic XL design, then perhaps other planes
have found the unfortunate formula for getting this resonant event started.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive |
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planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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do not archive
I believe that the Electra phenomena was "whirl mode"
Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
At 07:27 AM 4/24/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | Okkay...so what else would explain the results we see?
--
|
One thing which has happened in the past is "Resonant
Oscillations". This is the story I heard about Lockheed Electra in
flight breakups.
When a resonant oscillation occurs, the vibration keeps growing in
amplitude until the whole thing breaks. That is where the resonance
comes in. In a non-resonant vibration, the vibration is "Damped"
which means it naturally reduces until it goes away.
One version of the Electra story I heard (alas, there have been
several conflicting stories) was that there was a Be a better friend, newshound, and [quote][b]
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reinkings(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
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Has anyone else been unable to access the NTSB link on this message?
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