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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: Series 5 Light Sport |
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HOORAY! HOORAY!
SOMEONE has finally gone the distance and found some
DEFINITIVE information. (I hope.) Jay, may we have a source for this
quote? I'd like to know who it came from so we can ascertain their credentials.
Now before anyone thinks I was rooting either way, I wasn't
and I'm not. Indeed I hoped that Steve was right and that he would
publish definitive proof sooner or later. All I wanted was data, not opinion.
At 09:46 AM 4/25/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: |
<valleyairport(at)cotterweb.com>
Did you not like the answer from EAA?
Jay C.
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Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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valleyairport(at)cotterwe
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: Series 5 Light Sport |
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Guy,
Quote? The," Did not like the answer" was my comment. I went to the
EAA sport pilot site and searched the question and answer section. The same
question about the 1320 TO weight that keeps appearing on this list was
asked of the EAA. The answer from EAA is what I included in the previous
message.
It would be nice if current TO weight could be used. If this were
the case I think there would be more normal category aircraft available to
sport pilots. If the TO weight can be used, the authorities that have that
information are treating it like a state secret. I think AOPA, EAA, and
anyone with a normal category aircraft for sale that has a weight just above
1320 would have banner headlines with that information.
Jay C.
---
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: Series 5 Light Sport |
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Please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding of E-LSA are referred to aircraft that were unlicensed 2 place ultra light aircraft that fell in the no mans area. They were licensed in the category because they were not built by the owner and could not be licensed as amateur built experimental, also they could no longer be flown legally as a ultra light with one person
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: Series 5 Light Sport |
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No. Those “vehicles” were illegal to begin with without an FAA waiver of Part 103. See:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=86f198b84e879bd70a58f4d7617b8376&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.16&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.16.1.9.3
For explanation of E-LSA See: http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/lsa/likely_lsa.html
John Hart
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:54 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Series 5 Light Sport
Please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding of E-LSA are referred to aircraft that were unlicensed 2 place ultra light aircraft that fell in the no mans area. They were licensed in the category because they were not built by the owner and could not be licensed as amateur built experimental, also they could no longer be flown legally as a ultra light with one person.
Clint
From: helili(at)chahtatushka.net
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Series 5 Light Sport
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:24:32 -0500
The aircraft cannot be issued an experimental or E-LSA special airworthiness certificate specifying a maximum takeoff weight of more than 1320 pounds and flown under sport pilot rules. Any builder can specify the maximum takeoff weight of his aircraft, and have the special airworthiness certificate list the maximum takeoff weight as 1320 pounds or less and operate under Sport Pilot rules. If the you specify the maximum takeoff weight in the application for certification at 1320, that’s what you will get. If you specify the maximum takeoff weight at 1500, that’s what you will get, and it don’t fit light sport rules.
My Experimental (not E-LSA) KF IV shows a Gross Weight of 1250 on the data plate, and in the paperwork. The kit producers specified gross weight for the finished kit as 1200. The builder made a few mods, said he wanted to have the Special Airworthiness Certificate to show a gross weight of 1250 on his application and that’s what he got. Works the other way too.
John Hart
KF IV
Wilburton, OK
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RRTRACK(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:54 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Series 5 Light Sport
As far as a Sport Pilot using an experimental homebuilt aircraft. I believe it is required to test the flight characteristics at gross weight during the 40 hour phase and record the results in the log book.
At least that is what I have done with experimentals I built and test flew. I used sand or salt bags to add passenger weight. And also conducted flight tests with low and full fuel at near gross weights.
I love the concept of flying a Kitfox 5 to 7 registered at 1500 gross as a sport plane by limiting the take off weight to 1320#. Hopefully it can be done. Keep me posted.
Mark
Kitfox 5 Vixen
912UL IVO
Hartford, Wisconsin
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
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akflyer
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Series 5 Light Sport |
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| Guy Buchanan wrote: | HOORAY! HOORAY!
SOMEONE has finally gone the distance and found some
DEFINITIVE information. (I hope.) Jay, may we have a source for this
quote? I'd like to know who it came from so we can ascertain their credentials.
Now before anyone thinks I was rooting either way, I wasn't
and I'm not. Indeed I hoped that Steve was right and that he would
publish definitive proof sooner or later. All I wanted was data, not opinion.
At 09:46 AM 4/25/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: |
<valleyairport>
Did you not like the answer from EAA?
Jay C.
|
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive |
Guy,
When you quote something direct from the ruling or FR how much more definitive can you get? Do you mean to tell me that you think someone elses interpretation of words that are in black and white is more definitive than the words themselves?
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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die.... |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: Series 5 Light Sport |
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At 05:11 PM 4/26/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | | When you quote something direct from the ruling or FR how much more definitive can you get? Do you mean to tell me that you think someone elses interpretation of words that are in black and white is more definitive than the words themselves? |
Leonard,
I had never really noted that section, "As stated above in the section titled ‘‘Modifications of Aircraft To Meet the Light-Sport Aircraft Definition,’’ a sport pilot may not fly an aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate that has been modified to
meet the light-sport aircraft definition." because I generally live in the experimental world. The FAA is pretty clear about flying modified standard category aircraft.
The question was whether we could reduce the weight of or remove an in-flight adjustable prop from an experimental and fly it as an LSA. (Or Steve's question as to what defines "maximum takeoff weight".) I have read the entire LSA rule and still think "maximum takeoff weight" is a silly ambiguous term in the context of "[quote]since its original certification". What does "takeoff weight" have to do with "certification"? I know I'm supposed to log a "maximum gross weight" when I complete experimental aircraft flight testing. Is that the same as "maximum takeoff weight". It now appears that someone at someone at EAA and someone else at the FAA thinks it means "the heaviest weight at which the aircraft EVER flew", which, IN THEORY, is the same as the weight you logged at the end of flight test. (Since the weight and CG envelope is defined through Phase 1 flight testing.) It's an answer, it's clear, but I wish we had the FAA source.
Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. [quote][b]
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: Series 5 Light Sport |
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At 05:18 PM 4/25/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | Guy,
Quote? The," Did not like the answer" was my comment. I went
to the EAA sport pilot site and searched the question and answer
section. The same question about the 1320 TO weight that keeps
appearing on this list was asked of the EAA. The answer from EAA is
what I included in the previous message.
|
Aw dang. I was hoping it was straight from the FAA. I guess FAA once
removed is all we have at the moment.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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