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Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

for those of you havn't seen this



http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/18983854.html



do not archive

Checked by AVG.

7:42 PM

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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Europaphiles,



This accident occurred at K52F, Northwest Regional Airport, Roanoake, TX, which is where I do most of my flying from these days.  I was working and not at the airport that day, but my buddy Tommy Meyer was there and he took about 100 pictures of the aftermath.  From what I understand, speaking from those who were there,  the guy in the beautifully restored Stinson pulled out in front of the Piper on very short final and began a takeoff roll.  The student pilot and instructor in the Piper didn't observe it.  Typical high-wing/low-wing issue.  Anyway, the two aircraft had just matched speed when the Piper landed on top of the Stinson, left main gear through the cockpit, just behind the pilot, right main gear two ribs out from the right fuel tank, nose gear just to the right of the cowl and the two props tangled sending prop pieces all over the place.  Incredible luck that nobody was hurt.

Supposedly, both aircraft were in communications but there was a misunderstanding as to the exact position of the Piper in the pattern.  A clear example of the need for proper communication (Including Understanding Transmissions!!) in the traffic pattern at busy uncontrolled fields.  AND also the need for situational awareness at busy uncontrolled fields like 52F where there are numerous experimental, antique and classic aircraft without radios.  52F can be very busy.  The last time I flew out of there, I had to go around three times due to traffic issues.  Once because, after my radio call: "Experimental 62TR on short final 35," a C-172 called: "Cessna xxxxX position and hold 35" and he pulled out onto the runway right in front of me and just sat there.  

If anyone would like to see Tommy's pics, I'd be glad to post them in an album on the Europa Owners Forum, if that's OK with Steve and Jos.

Be safe, good building and great flying,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(95% done, only 95% to go) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,  baggage bay in. Fuel system complete.  Rotax and Airmaster installed.  Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done.  Completed the instrument panel install.   Europa interior kit being installed.  Installed windows.  Working in -  25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing.   Mostly finishing these days.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117





 



On May 17, 2008, at 3:37, craig bastin wrote:

[quote]

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josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Absolutely! Pictures please!



regards,



Jos

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

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karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Craig,

Looks like plane sex in a birds eyeview.

Karel Vranken.

---

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rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Bob,



You should remind your friend with the cessna that "position and

hold" is not valid at any untowered aerodrome and that landing 

aircraft have right of way.  The FAA is actively looking for pilots

who create runway incursions.

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_________________
Ira N224XS

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Ira, et. al.



Yes, I had a serious discussion with the gent who does the dispatching at MarcAir, he was a USAF air traffic controller for 20 years then manned a tower and FSS for the FAA till it was privatized.  "Position And Hold" is a clearance issued by a tower controller and not allowed at any other time, period (no, EXCLAMATION POINT).  It is considered a runway incursion when announced by someone in an aircraft on the taxiway.  Unfortunately, it has become "THE" thing to do at 52F (and apparently seems to be catching on elsewhere) and is causing no end of difficulties as these bozos seem to think it is a really neat thing to do in front of someone on final.  My guess is there will have to be some reporting to the FAA (boy do we other pilots hate to have to do that!) to get it cleared up.  The folks at MarcAir are trying to pass the word around that it is a bad thing, but it remains to be seen if it will get through those very few but very problematic, very thick, very numb, very dense skulls that pull that crap.

I'll get those pics posted later this evening and will announce to all when it has happened and where they are located.

Fly safe, please,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(95% done, only 95% to go) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,  baggage bay in. Fuel system complete.  Rotax and Airmaster installed.  Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done.  Completed the instrument panel install.   Europa interior kit being installed.  Installed windows.  Working in -  25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing.   Mostly finishing these days.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117





 



On May 17, 2008, at 12:31, rampil wrote:

[quote]

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Hey Karel

If this is plane Sex, Given one is a high wing and one a low, Is that where

Europa's come from 

If so i guess the the result is greater than the sum of its parts





Craig,

Looks like plane sex in a birds eyeview.

Karel Vranken.

---

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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Europaphiles,



I have posted Tommy Meyers pics of the aftermath of the landing accident at K54F.  They are in a nested album in the Builders Photo Album.  No text has been added, perhaps later when I have more time.  I must get up to the airport to begin priming the wings and do a bit more body filler work on the fuselage.

Be safe,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(95% done, only 95% to go) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear complete, rudder system in with Singleton Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in,  baggage bay in. Fuel system complete.  Rotax and Airmaster installed.  Mods 62, 66, 70 & 72 done.  Completed the instrument panel install.   Europa interior kit being installed.  Installed windows.  Working in -  25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing.   Mostly finishing these days.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117





 



On May 17, 2008, at 7:56, Robert Borger wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Europaphiles,



This accident occurred at K52F, Northwest Regional Airport, Roanoake, TX, which is where I do most of my flying from these days.  I was working and not at the airport that day, but my buddy Tommy Meyer was there and he took about 100 pictures of the aftermath.  From what I understand, speaking from those who were there,  the guy in the beautifully restored Stinson pulled out in front of the Piper on very short final and began a takeoff roll.  The student pilot and instructor in the Piper didn't observe it.  Typical high-wing/low-wing issue.  Anyway, the two aircraft had just matched speed when the Piper landed on top of the Stinson, left main gear through the cockpit, just behind the pilot, right main gear two ribs out from the right fuel tank, nose gear just to the right of the cowl and the two props tangled sending prop pieces all over the place.  Incredible luck that nobody was hurt.

Supposedly, both aircraft were in communications but there was a misunderstanding as to the exact position of the Piper in the pattern.  A clear example of the need for proper communication (Including Understanding Transmissions!!) in the traffic pattern at busy uncontrolled fields.  AND also the need for situational awareness at busy uncontrolled fields like 52F where there are numerous experimental, antique and classic aircraft without radios.  52F can be very busy.  The last time I flew out of there, I had to go around three times due to traffic issues.  Once because, after my radio call: "Experimental 62TR on short final 35," a C-172 called: "Cessna xxxxX position and hold 35" and he pulled out onto the runway right in front of me and just sat there.  

If anyone would like to see Tommy's pics, I'd be glad to post them in an album on the Europa Owners Forum, if that's OK with Steve and Jos.

Be safe, good building and great flying,

 Bob Borger

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: Off Topic - Situational Awareness ???

Karel



I have thought always Piper is an old fat lady but in this case she must be male with fixed standing gear.



Raimo

---

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