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Cockpit cooling

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jrstone(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Cockpit cooling

Hey Guys,

 My cockpit air comes from a two inch scat going  from a hole in the upper rear baffle on the left/center side, same side as  my oil cooler, and then goes to a firewall mixer valve which allows heat muff  air to be mixed with it.  My complaint is, this air is too warm on a day  that is 75 degrees or warmer.  I have a Naca vent under the right wing that  brings in cool outside air but it goes only to the rear seater.  I would  like to change the front seat set up and leave the rear seat the way it  is.  My question is, has anyone put a 2" hole in the forward horizontal  baffle, in front of number 2 cyl and pulled the air down and aft to the mixer  valve on the firewall?  Or, has anyone just tied a scat hose along the top  of the engine from the aft baffle to the cowl opening in front of number 2 cyl.  in an effort to catch the air before it warms up.  

 My setup is similar to John Harmon's, and he told  me years ago that it works fine for him, so I assumed if it works in the  Bakersfield desert, it will work in Louisville. Perhaps my setup is not as  similar to John's as I think.

  

 TIA,

 Jim Stone

   [quote][b]

bluebird266(at)dslextreme
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: Cockpit cooling

At 07:31 PM 5/21/2008, you wrote:



 Bakersfield is a dry HEAT!!  Ha ha!



 You have that muggy heat!



 Check with  2nelson(at)prodigy.net   Greg nelson. He has a nice set up that I was going to do but never did



 Harry



 



 [quote]Hey Guys,

 My cockpit air comes from a two inch scat going from a hole in the upper rear baffle on the left/center side, same side as my oil cooler, and then goes to a firewall mixer valve which allows heat muff air to be mixed with it.  My complaint is, this air is too warm on a day that is 75 degrees or warmer.  I have a Naca vent under the right wing that brings in cool outside air but it goes only to the rear seater.  I would like to change the front seat set up and leave the rear seat the way it is.  My question is, has anyone put a 2" hole in the forward horizontal baffle, in front of number 2 cyl and pulled the air down and aft to the mixer valve on the firewall?  Or, has anyone just tied a scat hose along the top of the engine from the aft baffle to the cowl opening in front of number 2 cyl. in an effort to catch the air before it warms up.  

 My setup is similar to John Harmon's, and he told me years ago that it works fine for him, so I assumed if it works in the Bakersfield desert, it will work in Louisville. Perhaps my setup is not as similar to John's as I think.

  

 TIA,

 Jim Stone

 

 [b]

fred.laforge(at)verizon.n
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: Cockpit cooling

Jim, I tried air off the back of  the engine plenum on my RV-4,,,, Too warm. I would recomend a NACA vent. and  thick insulation on firewall and under your feet.

 [quote]   ---

baremetl(at)gvtc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: Cockpit cooling

Jim,

  

 I had a similar set up on my rv-4. The air was  taken off the rear baffle and run into the cockpit. It was ok until it got hot  in the summertime. It was really bad when I slowed down in the pattern.I changed  the set up and extended the tube forward across the top of the crankcase to the  left opening in the front of the cowl. That was much better. I now measure only  a 3-4 degree increase in temperature compared to the rear vent outlet which  comes from under the wing. I terminated the scat tube with an aluminum end to  dress it up visually up front. With a 540 engine instead of a 320 the heat  picked up may be more especially due to the longer length. I plan to do the same  on my rocket if I ever can finish it.... I can get pictures if you need  them.

  

 Ivan Haecker   rv-4  1455hrs. S.  Cen. TX

  

 ---

fairlea(at)amtelecom.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: Cockpit cooling

Jim  

            I pick up my pilot air from a hole in the leading edge.  There is room to get an opening in the faring between the wing and the fuselage.  The air goes through a hole in the fuse and the hose then goes up the back of the #2 bulkhead.  There is lots of cool fresh air from this location.  

   

Tom Martin  

         

  

From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone

 Sent: May 21, 2008 10:31 PM

 To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Cockpit cooling  

  

     

Hey Guys,  

    

My cockpit air comes from a two inch scat going from a hole in the upper rear baffle on the left/center side, same side as my oil cooler, and then goes to a firewall mixer valve which allows heat muff air to be mixed with it.  My complaint is, this air is too warm on a day that is 75 degrees or warmer.  I have a Naca vent under the right wing that brings in cool outside air but it goes only to the rear seater.  I would like to change the front seat set up and leave the rear seat the way it is.  My question is, has anyone put a 2" hole in the forward horizontal baffle, in front of number 2 cyl and pulled the air down and aft to the mixer valve on the firewall?  Or, has anyone just tied a scat hose along the top of the engine from the aft baffle to the cowl opening in front of number 2 cyl. in an effort to catch the air before it warms up.    

    

My setup is similar to John Harmon's, and he told me years ago that it works fine for him, so I assumed if it works in the Bakersfield desert, it will work in Louisville. Perhaps my setup is not as similar to John's as I think.  

    

   

    

TIA,  

    

Jim Stone  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List 	


     Checked by AVG.  

  Checked by AVG.

jrstone(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: Cockpit cooling

Hey Ivan,

 I think your plan may be the easiest to  try first.  If pics are not to difficult, please send me a few.   In particular, I would like to see the scoop or forward end of the scat tube and  how it sits in the intake.

 Thanks for your help,

 Jim

 [quote]   ---

smokyray(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: Cockpit cooling

My very early (96') HR2 was set up with rear engine baffle cockpit fresh air when I bought it. For the SE USA, it was completely inadequate. I had an AE friend look over the fuselage sides and located the best high pressure area for Vans style NACA ducts and installed one on either side of the Fuselage with Hysol structural epoxy(no rivets). They are ducted inside via 2" SCAT to large aluminum eyeball vents from Acft Spruce. I also vented the rear baggage compartment into the aft fuselage by cutting 4-3" holes in the rear baggage access door and putting screen door screen behind the holes. "You can't get air in without getting it out".

 Now at cruise speeds the airflow through the vents will nearly "peel paint". I like it!



Rob Ray

HR2

 



--- On Thu, 5/22/08, Tom Martin <fairlea(at)amtelecom.net> wrote:

From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)amtelecom.net>

Subject: RE: Cockpit cooling

To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, May 22, 2008, 6:38 AM





 

 

 



 



 



Jim 



            I pick up my pilot air from a

hole in the leading edge.  There is room to get an opening in the faring

between the wing and the fuselage.  The air goes through a hole in the fuse and

the hose then goes up the back of the #2 bulkhead.  There is lots of cool fresh

air from this location. 



   



Tom Martin 



   



From:

owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone



Sent: May 21, 2008 10:31 PM



To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com



Subject: Cockpit

cooling 



   



Hey Guys, 



My cockpit air comes from a two inch scat going from a

hole in the upper rear baffle on the left/center side, same side as my oil

cooler, and then goes to a firewall mixer valve which allows heat muff air to

be mixed with it.  My complaint is, this air is too warm on a day that is

75 degrees or warmer.  I have a Naca vent under the right wing that brings

in cool outside air but it goes only to the rear seater.  I would like to

change the front seat set up and leave the rear seat the way it is.  My

question is, has anyone put a 2" hole in the forward horizontal baffle, in

front of number 2 cyl and pulled the air down and aft to the mixer valve on the

firewall?  Or, has anyone just tied a scat hose along the top of the engine

from the aft baffle to the cowl opening in front of number 2 cyl. in an effort

to catch the air before it warms up.   



My setup is similar to John Harmon's, and he told me years

ago that it works fine for him, so I assumed if it works in the

 Bakersfield desert, it will work in

 Louisville . Perhaps my setup is not as

similar to John's as I think. 



  



TIA, 



Jim Stone 



       





Checked by AVG. 



Checked by AVG.

baremetl(at)gvtc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: Cockpit Cooling

Jim,

  

 Here is a picture that I have readily available.  I'm not sure how to send to the list, so if the picture doesn't come through,  send me your e-mail address and I can send it directly to you. If you need more  detail, I can take more pictures this weekend.

  

 Ivan Haecker

109-0992_IMG.JPG

Description:

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jrstone(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Cockpit Cooling

I got the pic, thanks Ivan.

 Jim

 [quote]   ---

jrstone(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: Cockpit cooling

Tom,

 So the air comes in a hole, does the  air flow into a duct at the hole or after it comes thru the side of the  fuselage?  Just trying to picture it.  I like this idea more than  installing NACAs on my new paint.  Do you have a pic or two?

 Thanks,

 Jim

 [quote]   ---

Vince Frazier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 132

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: cockpit cooling

SNIP jim, I haven't had Vinces problem on my HR2. My AE buddy stressed location was

critical in getting large volumes of cool air, which I do.

RR SNIP



Rob and others,



I certainly don't dispute that the wingroot vents get plenty of air.  They do.  So do the NACA vents on the fuselage sides.  However, both of those locations are 10+ degrees F hotter than the NACA scoop under the wing.  10 degrees doesn't sound like much, but when it's already 85F and 90% humidity, it is miserable.



Having just returned from vacation and a cross country drive from Los Angeles to Indiana, via Death Valley where it was a comfortable 110F and <10% humidity, I think I can safely assume that it is the humidity that makes Indiana and Kentucky uncomfortable compared to anywhere in the western U.S. or Canada.  It gets blazing hot out west, but without the humidity, it's nowhere near as uncomfortable as it gets here.



My whole point here is that the underwing NACA scoops are measurably cooler... so why not enjoy the cooler air instead of the hot fuselage air if you're making a change or building anew.  It's a mistake that I won't make again!



Vince

_________________
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 work
812-985-7309 home
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://vincesrocket.com/

T.gummo(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: cockpit cooling

Boy am I P_SSed.



Vince, you drove right by my house and you didn't stop to say hello.



Tom Gummo

Apple Valley, CA

Harmon Rocket-II



do not archive



http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html

---

larry(at)ncproto.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: cockpit cooling

I’m not flying yet but have put some thought into this.  I have a NACA duct on the bottom of both wings; one for the pilot and one for the PAX (a la RV-.  One of my decision factors is the sad case of another pilot in the northwest that lost his life due to a firewall forward fire.  I have heard the evidence showed he had burns on his left leg from the standard RV-8 NACA duct inlet.  My option is to have no air inlets aft of the cowl.  Besides, as Vince has said “why not enjoy the cool air from the wing NACA ducts anyway?”  

Larry E. James  

Bellevue, WA  

Super Decathlon  

Rocket under construction  

       [quote][b]

smokyray(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: cockpit cooling

Jim/Vince,



 No arguments here, I live in Central FL where humidity is manufactured and exported! I inspected an RV4 for a friend recently that had the under wing NACA ducts (1 each side) for cockpit cooling. The right side went to a rear eyeball vent in the stickwell, the front had a unique snorkel duct that pointed forward from just aft of the main spar. 

 The airflow inflight was excellent, equal to or better than my setup and even worked on the ground. Also unique was his Grob Sailplane/Extra 300 canopy sliding vent in the front cockpit ala Tony Bingelis' RV3. It also worked very well. 



Very Cool 



RR



--- On Mon, 5/26/08, Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> wrote:

From: Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>

Subject: cockpit cooling

To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, May 26, 2008, 8:51 PM



Jim, I haven't had Vinces problem on my HR2. My AE buddy stressed

location was

critical in getting large volumes of cool air, which I do.

RR 



Rob and others,



I certainly don't dispute that the wingroot vents get plenty of air.  They

do.  So do the NACA vents on the fuselage sides.  However, both of those

locations are 10+ degrees F hotter than the NACA scoop under the wing.  10

degrees doesn't sound like much, but when it's already 85F and 90%

humidity, it is miserable.



Having just returned from vacation and a cross country drive from Los Angeles

to Indiana, via Death Valley where it was a comfortable 110F and <10%

humidity, I think I can safely assume that it is the humidity that makes

Indiana and Kentucky uncomfortable compared to anywhere in the western U.S. or

Canada.  It gets blazing hot out west, but without the humidity, it's

nowhere near as uncomfortable as it gets here.



My whole point here is that the underwing NACA scoops are measurably cooler...

so why not enjoy the cooler air instead of the hot fuselage air if you're

making a change or building anew.  It's a mistake that I won't make

again!



Vince

jrstone(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: cockpit cooling

Hey Rob,

Doesn't that snorkel pick up exhaust fumes?

Jim

---

smokyray(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: cockpit cooling

Jim,



The RV4's under wing NACA ducts were about mid-fuel tank 6" behind the spar. Both SCAT tubes entered the fuselage under the floorboard aft of the spar. For front cockpit air he simply built a periscope/snorkel out of the floorboard with an eyeball vent on the end of it(slightly in the way for rear seat pax). You could point it forward or aft, he had it forward. The rear duct had an eyeball vent in the rear stickwell.

 My HR2's fuselage NACA ducts work very well with no warm air issues although they are AOA critical. At approach airspeeds they are almost ineffective. At cruise however, Hurricane warnings are in effect:) Personally, I think the underwing vents are a great idea and hide any holes under the bottom, free from rain, and detracting from the beauty of the HR2. Mine however were easiest for me on an already flying airplane...



Ronnie said he could install them for you in one day, need a FL vacation?



RR

--- On Tue, 5/27/08, Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> wrote:



[quote] From: Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>

 Subject: Re: cockpit cooling

 To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 9:33 PM

 

 <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>

 

 Hey Rob,

 Doesn't that snorkel pick up exhaust fumes?

 Jim

 ---

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