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Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

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AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

Reference to page 24-3 of the plans on the installation of the wing tips.



I have pre-fitted the tip using "step 1" and drilled/clecoed #40 the attach holes. It seems to line up pretty good. I do not understand why you want to remove the wing tip per "Step 2"



It would seem better to just finish drill #28 right thru the aluminum and the fiberglass to maintain alignment and keep the fiberglass from puckering. After drilling you can detach the tip and do the dimpling, deburring, countersinking and aligning the nut plates.



Is there something that I am missing here.

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

I guess they want to be sure that no chips are caught between the fiberglass and the aluminum.

Michael

_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

roadmaps

Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 49

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

Mike,



I strongly encourage you to drill the wing tip attach with the wing on the

plane and all control surfaces in the neutral position. Clamp a long

straightedge to the wingtip, aileron and flap edges. Otherwise the wingtips

will not align with the aileron tips. I had to do major surgery with the

wingtips to fix this problem



John Testement

jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com

40321

Richmond, VA

Painting and final assembly

do not archive

  



--

ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

I endorse John's comments 100%.  I followed the plans and had a right

wing tip 1/2" lower than the flaps/ailerons.   The idea of a 'mini

aileron' on the right wing (causing a significantly 'heavy' left wing)

was not acceptable, so 12 build hours later and I am still reforming the

tip.  Almost done, but attaching the tips without the flaps and ailerons

aligned is more a lottery than anything else.



Cheers

Ron

187 almost done.



--

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - uh oh

Very interesting and informative. It seems that the wing tips only affix to the aluminum part ONE WAY - tight. But the trailing 8-10" seems to be the area in question - is that correct ?



From what I can extrapolate is it ok to affix the forward part (in front of the aileron hinge)  and then split the rear and install the reinforcing section after the ailerons are fitted and trimmed for flight ?? That way the trailing edge is perfectly trimmed with the aileron ???



Boy it is great having this resource !!!!! Kuddos to Matt.

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

I have no experience with splitting the trailing edge and attempting

re-alignemnt.  I think I read that Tim O. tried this and had to abandon

a tip in favour of a new one, so I did not even try.  I think I have

also seen a post (from Jesse) about forming ('twisting?' the nose of the

LE to raise/lower the aft edge.  There is a bit in the archives on this.

I would suggest the following order:



1.	make certain the flap and aileron are on the wing and in the

trail position (flap fully up)

2.	align the trailing edge with aileron/flap (use tape to attach

the tip to the wing)

3.	drill the tip to the fuse

4.	attach the tip.  

5.	Check the length of the tip - if the tip is too long, remove it

and apply some epoxy to beef up the inside of the TE in case you need to

remove the epoxy at the the existing TE join. From what I can tell, you

really don't want to separate the trailing edge.

6.	trim the tip and shape as required.



YMMV, but this is what I would do if I had to do it again.



Hope this helps

Ron

187



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

I haven't been following this thread very closely, so I don't know  

what all has been said so far, but you can twist the leading edge up  

or down a little bit to raise or lower the trailing edge to line up  

with the aileron.  This, of course, has to be done before drilling all  

of the holes.  You can drill a couple to hold it in place with clecos  

to see if it is right, then move it a little and drill others until it  

is right, then you will need to reenforce the holes that were off  

before finishing the wing.  We now use the hinge method of  

installation, which still uses the same technique for fitting it in  

the first place.  I very much prefer using the hinge because it not  

only looks much better, IMHO, but it can make the tip much easier to  

take off and put back on during an inspection.  We still use a few  

screws up in the front where a standard hinge can't handle the curve  

very well.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On May 22, 2008, at 1:23 AM, McGANN, Ron wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 I have no experience with splitting the trailing edge and attempting

 re-alignemnt.  I think I read that Tim O. tried this and had to  

 abandon

 a tip in favour of a new one, so I did not even try.  I think I have

 also seen a post (from Jesse) about forming ('twisting?' the nose of  

 the

 LE to raise/lower the aft edge.  There is a bit in the archives on  

 this.

 I would suggest the following order:



 1.	make certain the flap and aileron are on the wing and in the

 trail position (flap fully up)

 2.	align the trailing edge with aileron/flap (use tape to attach

 the tip to the wing)

 3.	drill the tip to the fuse

 4.	attach the tip.

 5.	Check the length of the tip - if the tip is too long, remove it

 and apply some epoxy to beef up the inside of the TE in case you  

 need to

 remove the epoxy at the the existing TE join. From what I can tell,  

 you

 really don't want to separate the trailing edge.

 6.	trim the tip and shape as required.



 YMMV, but this is what I would do if I had to do it again.



 Hope this helps

 Ron

 187



 --

roadmaps

Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 49

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

When I attached my wingtip it had room to move inside the metal - kind of

rotates - and the trailing edge could be adjusted up or down. I clamped the

trailing edge to the aileron and then drilled the attach holes. All this was

after I did not do this the first time and had to cut open the trailing

edges, adjust and then re-glass them together. You should be able to avoid

doing this if you clamp things together before drilling.



 I also had to cut about  1/2" off the trailing edges and also re-glass

them. The tips were a lot of work.



John Testement

jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com

40321

Richmond, VA

Painting and final assembly

do not archive



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

You can also use some fiberglass resin with flox (mix very runny) and  

fill up the trailing edge, which will allow you to sand down until  

it's flush and then use cloth to reglass around the trailing edge.   

This eliminates the need to split the trailing edge and then reglass  

it from there.



do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On May 22, 2008, at 8:26 AM, John Testement wrote:



[quote] 

 >

 When I attached my wingtip it had room to move inside the metal -  

 kind of

 rotates - and the trailing edge could be adjusted up or down. I  

 clamped the

 trailing edge to the aileron and then drilled the attach holes. All  

 this was

 after I did not do this the first time and had to cut open the  

 trailing

 edges, adjust and then re-glass them together. You should be able to  

 avoid

 doing this if you clamp things together before drilling.



 I also had to cut about  1/2" off the trailing edges and also re-glass

 them. The tips were a lot of work.



 John Testement

 jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com

 40321

 Richmond, VA

 Painting and final assembly

 do not archive



 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: Fiberglass Wing Tip Installation - simple efficiency

I agree fully with Ron.  I would absolutely make sure the flaps

are mounted and all the way up, and that the ailerons are mounted

too.  I don't believe it matters a bit if the wing is on the plane

though.  Once the tip is in place, it can rotate around and cause

the trailing edge to take different positions...not much, mind you

but enough to make a difference.  So what I did was to push the

tip in place and forward to expand the fiberglass out to meet

the metal everywhere, and had a helper drill and cleco.  You want

that tip pushed in forward tight so the tip fills most of the gap

between the tip and skin......while maintaining the trailing

edges of everything all in alignment.  What you then have is a

wingtip/aileron/flap combo that is all aligned in flight when

the flaps are at -3 degrees in the reflex position.



If the tips are too long, and I was doing it all over again, I'd

probably get it all drilled and fit in place and then trim the

tip back to the length I needed...but if it was going to trim

enough to split the upper and lower tip halves, I'd glass inside

the tip further before I started...just to maintain the same

relative positions.  Of course, you'd still have to make the

upper and lower skins meet at a taper, so you couldn't let the

tip get too thick at the trailing edge.  You could also

match them up and drill and bold thru the trailing edges to maintain

alignment.  If they're over 3/4" too long though, it could get

painful.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying



McGANN, Ron wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I have no experience with splitting the trailing edge and attempting

 re-alignemnt.  I think I read that Tim O. tried this and had to abandon

 a tip in favour of a new one, so I did not even try.  I think I have

 also seen a post (from Jesse) about forming ('twisting?' the nose of the

 LE to raise/lower the aft edge.  There is a bit in the archives on this.

 I would suggest the following order:

 

 1.	make certain the flap and aileron are on the wing and in the

 trail position (flap fully up)

 2.	align the trailing edge with aileron/flap (use tape to attach

 the tip to the wing)

 3.	drill the tip to the fuse

 4.	attach the tip.  

 5.	Check the length of the tip - if the tip is too long, remove it

 and apply some epoxy to beef up the inside of the TE in case you need to

 remove the epoxy at the the existing TE join. From what I can tell, you

 really don't want to separate the trailing edge.

 6.	trim the tip and shape as required.

 

 YMMV, but this is what I would do if I had to do it again.

 

 Hope this helps

 Ron

 187

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