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Fiberglassing tips?

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donpearsall
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: Fiberglassing tips?

I need to do some mods to my fiberglass motorcycle bodywork. I want to shape

some streamlined bumps on the surface for various protrusions. I have some

fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin I bought from Tap Plastics. My question is

what kind of foam can I use to the shaping and then easily remove it,

possibly by dissolving it out?



Thanks

Don Pearsall

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pulsair(at)mindspring.com
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: Fiberglassing tips?

Don,

A/C Spruce and specilityy sells this two part expandable foam. When your 

layup is complete you can dig it out or rough sand it out. Buy the smallest 

quality, it goes a very long way. Some protrusions you can just do a layup 

over the protrusion and feather it in using a light filler. Jeff Classic IV.

---

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: Fiberglassing tips?

Hi, Don,



There are lots of ways to accomplish what you want to do.  As to the foam 

question, I am not up on what ACS has available now, as my foam experience 

was in the 90's while I was building.  I had one foam that was so soft that 

brushing on the "tack" coat of resin removed the top layer of foam - way too 

soft.  I'd suggest a medium wt. foam if you decide to go that way.



With the Epoxy any foam that you can shape will work.  Scrap Styrofoam from 

a packing carton would work if it can be filed and sanded.  Styrofoam will 

not work with Polyester resin as the resin will dissolve it.



One thing I learned in the Lancair project - the Dremel tool is probably the 

most often used tool in  the project.  We use thin diamond wheels to cut the 

cured carbon fiber and glass lay-ups to shape and the round sanding drums 

are used frequently for fairing and shaping.  This little puppy is 

absolutely indispensible with glass work IMHO.



Another method if your faired mods are fairly small:



On the Lancair, we needed a bubble on the baggage floor to clear the 

hydraulic pump that was mounted below it and I cut a hole in the floor, 

clearing the pump and made a small build up of Micro - microballoons and 

resin - around the hole sort of like an initial fairing to the bubble.  My 

plan was to lay up two or three layers of glass / resin and and then turn 

the floor board upside down and have the layers of glass gravity sag into 

the shape I needed.  Surprise! The resin stood up even in the up position 

and I was able to shape it as I wanted it and there it stayed.  It came out 

really nice.  It will be covered with carpet so a nice faired surface was 

not necessary.



One trick we use all the time on the Lancair:  Cut the glass to shape - as 

many pieces as you need for the lay-up making sure you have about an inch 

overlap.  (A cookie cutter like, cutter works great, they are available at 

yardage shops.)  Cut the glass on a bias so the long axis of the repair is 

not in line with the glass fibers.  This helps with compound curves.  Lay 

the first piece of cloth on a sheet of thin plastic - 2 mil or so and at 

least two inches larger than the glass cloth.  Pour the resin on the glass 

from the mixing cup.  Spread it around and when saturated, put on the second 

piece of glass. Add a little more resin if needed and then add the third 

piece of glass.  When all the glass is saturated, put another piece of the 2 

mil on top and using a plastic squeegee or roller - we find a squeetee works 

best -  work all the resin that you can from the center to and slightly 

beyond the edge of the cloth.  This way you have removed all excess resin - 

the excess should still be between the layers of 2 mil.   A trick is to now 

cut the 2 mil around the glass with the cookie cutter, leaving the excess 

resin in the cut off part.  Peel off one layer of the 2 mil and now you have 

a handle to move the lay-up to your motorcycle part.  Lay it on the hole, 

resin side against the original, part and tamp it in place around the edge 

with a dryish brush.  Remove the top layer of 2 mil and shape the bubble 

with the brush to get the shape you want and to work out bubbles that might 

be in the bond area.  In Lancair talk this would be referred to as a "three 

BID" lay-up  We do one BIDs, two BIDs up to 6 BIDs depending on the 

structural needs.  I think BID stands for Bi Directional. meaning the cloth 

has identical fiber counts long ways and sideways.



You might find there will be less finishing if you put the glass patch on 

the inside and work the bubble out through the hole. This way you won't have 

to fair in the bonding flange.  On my project, I put the patch on the top 

side, then after curing, I trimmed the underside edge of the floorboard to a 

smooth junction and then put one layer of glass on the bottom sort of 

sandwiching the edge of the original panel.



Scuff sand the original surface well and if you work from the inside, bevel 

the edge to give a closer fit.  Vacuum off the sanding dust and clean with 

Acetone.  Also before you  apply the new glass brush on a thin tack layer of 

the resin in the bonding area otherwise the resin in the glass might be too 

scarce to get a good bond.



If you work from the inside with the multiple layer, a single layer of cloth 

on the outside will be easier to fair out then  multiple layers on the 

outside.  Fairing is done with microballoons (also available from TAP) mixed 

into the resin to a peanut butter consistency.  I like to use a single edge 

razor blade for the final fairing as it will fill low spots without adding a 

lot of new micro to sand off.  A single edge razor blade can also be bent to 

accommodate curved surfaces - use gloves.



Also using the foamless method it might ba possoble to put the fiberglass 

part on the motorcycle to see if everything fits.



Other methods might be to use a variation of the foam and direct method by 

using  thin transparent packing tape as a bond release.  Put the tape around 

the hole on the bonding surface.  Make the bubble fairing on the tape and 

after curing remove it.  Trim it to shape, cleco it in place for trial fit 

and if everything is OK, bond it in place with structural adhesve or resin 

mixed with cotton flox.  Then fair it in with the micro.  If you  use 

cleco's to hold it while curing, run the drill through the holes to remove 

most of the resin/flox or adhesive before inserting the cleco or you might 

render the clecos unusable.  You can get them out but they won't spring well 

in future use.  Small sheet metal screws work also.



I know that sometimes explaining something like this just invites confusion. 

So if any part is not clear drop a note.



Lowell

---

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donpearsall
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: Fiberglassing tips?

Wow, Thanks much Lowell and Jeff. Lowell, you provided a textbook worth of

tips! I appreciate all the time you spent explaining the process. I will try

to do the bubbles using your foamless method. Thanks again!



Don Pearsall

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bnn(at)nethere.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: Fiberglassing tips?

At 07:31 PM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  When all the glass is saturated, put another piece of the 2

mil on top and using a plastic squeegee or roller - we find a squeetee works

best -  work all the resin that you can from the center to and slightly

beyond the edge of the cloth.


	


Be careful with the squeegee or roller. Woven material has a very definite 

thickness and you can over-bleed the laminate this way. Once the resin is 

rolled out the laminate will "rebound" pulling a lot of voids into the 

surface plies. I don't know how to tell you how much pressure to apply, 

it's trial and error, just don't get on it hard. You want the resulting 

laminate, (unless it's non-structural,) to be compact, but smooth. If the 

weave is pronounced after the part is cured, it's a good indication your 

surface plies are structurally useless, and you may have pulled porosity 

even further into the laminate.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Fairing is done with microballoons (also available from TAP) mixed

into the resin to a peanut butter consistency.


	


I like to use Microlite from West Systems. It sands WONDERFULLY but is very 

expensive. Another good trick with the razor blade is to go over the entire 

laminate with relatively soft filler to fill pin holes. I like to calendar 

filler on with a serrated squeegee. When you sand you can see exactly where 

the surface is and how much filler you've got on. When the surface is fair, 

meaning you've got the shape you want, fill the remaining stripes with a 

smooth, hard edged, squeegee and lightly touch it up.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: Fiberglassing tips?

Good question. When I made my console for my M4 I had a choice of several 

kinds of foam. Find out which one works. First see if the candidate is easy 

to shape an sand. Then test it with your resin to see if it attacks the 

foam. Some foams dissolve with gasoline which is handy, but not a real 

requirement. One could try the cast foam that comes in boxes for appliances 

or computers. Try the foam at the Home stores - may work. My final choice 

was some building insulation foam I found along site of the road. Very 

dissimilar to what Lowes and Home Depot sells.

  Regards. Paul

=================



At 04:47 PM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I need to do some mods to my fiberglass motorcycle bodywork. I want to shape

some streamlined bumps on the surface for various protrusions. I have some

fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin I bought from Tap Plastics. My question is

what kind of foam can I use to the shaping and then easily remove it,

possibly by dissolving it out?



Thanks

Don Pearsall

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AMuller589(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: Fiberglassing tips?

Styrofoam like boat docks, home insulation, and coolers are made from  work 

very well and can be dissolved by gasoline etc. without hurting the epoxy.  

p.s. Remember you can clean your hands, clothes tools, scissors etc  with any 

cheap vinegar. Even clean your ratio pumps without contaminating  the epoxy, just 

dry it out good. The stuff I got at the boat  store recommends it for these 

uses, and it doesn't hurt the skin. If  you use polyurethane glue for bonding 

styafoam blocks together you can even  hotwire cut the foam and gluelines.

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