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Bounced from the Grumman Gang

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GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

Once again I got bounced from the Grumman Gang. Â What a pain in the ass. Â That dickhead running it must not want any real conversation regarding planes. Â I've read my posts over the last few days and I see nothing it it that is the least bit offensive. Â So, what-the-f*ck? 

 

  I guess he has . . . . . Â never mind. Â The little Hitler/NapoleonÂ needs to get a life and let the users determine what they want to listen to or not. Â Kind of like China, anything said must be approved by the state. Â Â The little f*ck anyway.

  

 

  Whatever. Â I'm tired of his childish bullsh*t.

  

 

  I was about to abandon TeamGrumman-List. Â Once again, it comes through when the GG doesn't. Â 

 Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

aa1bflyboy

Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 30

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

Gary don't abandon it. Hang in there. I've been helping with getting the AYA 

forum going with Don Metz, Richard Hensley and Nigel Thomas. I imagine in 

time I'll start getting booted from the GG as well for being part of 

something that *competes* with his illustrious list. Feel free to come check 

out the AYA forum <www.ayaforum.org> One does not need to be an AYA member 

to join but it does have small benefits if you are.



We shall not cease from exploration.

And at the end of all our exploring

Will be to arrive were we started

And know the place for the first time - T. S. Eliot



Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY (at) ILG





----Original Message Follows----

From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com

Reply-To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:37:50 -0400



Once again I got bounced from the Grumman Gang. Â What a pain in the ass. 

Â That dickhead running it must not want any real conversation regarding 

planes. Â I've read my posts over the last few days and I see nothing it it 

that is the least bit offensive. Â So, what-the-f*ck?



I guess he has . . . . . Â never mind. Â The little Hitler/NapoleonÂ needs 

to get a life and let the users determine what they want to listen to or 

not. Â Kind of like China, anything said must be approved by the state. 

Â Â The little f*ck anyway.





Whatever. Â I'm tired of his childish bullsh*t.





I was about to abandon TeamGrumman-List. Â Once again, it comes through when 

the GG doesn't. Â

_________________
Steve Roberts

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

I've played his silly f*cking game now for 10 years. Â The little f*ck needs a life. Â I started TeamGrumman-List because I got bounced for sending a "Merry Christmas" to all of the Grumman owners. Â F*ck him. Â He has too big of an inflated image of himself. Â  

 

  Now, do you want to know how I really feel?

 

 

 --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

marc(at)skymachines.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

You guys think the GG is bad, you should see the  Cardinal Flyers Online for Cessna 177 folks. I paid him $39/yr., and he has to  approve (and make endless comments on) every post. If he doesn't like what you  have to say (doesn't happen often), he squashes it. I just want to read what the  posters have to say, not the admin's. 

  

 Marc Coan,

 Santa Fe, NM

 [quote]   ---

jamey

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

Astounding that people have so little else to do and are so convinced of their own ability to determine what the dialog should be.Â  Has anyone just called the prick out at the AYA convention or posted an article in the Star pointing out his history as the list Nazi?  

   

Iâ€™m sure lots of folks would say to not bite the hand that feeds you yet thatâ€™s how you end up with governments that tax you into submission, or trample your basic freedoms, etc.Â  Itâ€™s not like setting up a mailing list is rocket science or even expensive or resource intensive.  

   

Iâ€™ve had several posts I thought were quite constructive never make it onto the list over the years.Â  Why, who knowsâ€¦  

   

Jamey  

   

       

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Coan

 Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:24 AM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Bounced from the Grumman Gang  

  

  

     

You guys think the GG is bad, you should see the Cardinal Flyers Online for Cessna 177 folks. I paid him $39/yr., and he has to approve (and make endless comments on) every post. If he doesn't like what you have to say (doesn't happen often), he squashes it. I just want to read what the posters have to say, not the admin's.   

    

   

    

Marc Coan,  

    

Santa Fe, NM  

  [quote]    

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com)   

    

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:07 AM  

    

Subject: Re: Bounced from the Grumman Gang  

    

   

  

I've played his silly f*cking game now for 10 years.  The little f*ck needs a life.  I started TeamGrumman-List because I got bounced for sending a "Merry Christmas" to all of the Grumman owners.  F*ck him.  He has too big of an inflated image of himself.       

   

    

Now, do you want to know how I really feel?

 

 

 --

N26390(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

OK, so I don't post that much on the GG.  Most times I'll respond to  the original author of a question or concern (I'm not one of the experts).   However, when one of my postings doesn't get published that I believe is  relevant and not against the rules, I'll write Mark a note asking why the  posting was not published.  When not published it is usually because I've  copied into my response a portion of the original author's note or copied a  hyperlink (as a hyperlink).  On other occasions the posting I made was  subsequently published.  I know this doesn't answer all the questions, but  this has been my expereince.

 Bests,

 Roger  Rucker

AA5A '78 HWO   

  In a message dated 05/27/2008 7:44:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jamey(at)jamescourtney.net writes:

 [quote]      

Astounding    that people have so little else to do and are so convinced of their own    ability to determine what the dialog should be.  Has anyone just called    the prick out at the AYA convention or posted an article in the Star pointing    out his history as the list Nazi?   

    

Iâ€™m    sure lots of folks would say to not bite the hand that feeds you yet thatâ€™s    how you end up with governments that tax you into submission, or trample your    basic freedoms, etc.  Itâ€™s not like setting up a mailing list is rocket    science or even expensive or resource intensive.   

    

Iâ€™ve    had several posts I thought were quite constructive never make it onto the    list over the years.  Why, who knowsâ€¦   

    

Jamey   

    

          

From:    owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc    Coan

Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:24 AM

To:    teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List:    Bounced from the Grumman Gang



   

       

You guys think    the GG is bad, you should see the Cardinal Flyers Online for Cessna 177 folks.    I paid him $39/yr., and he has to approve (and make endless comments on) every    post. If he doesn't like what you have to say (doesn't happen often), he    squashes it. I just want to read what the posters have to say, not the    admin's. 

      

 

      

Marc    Coan,

      

Santa Fe,    NM

   [quote]          

----- Original      Message ----- 

          

From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com)      

          

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)      

          

Sent: Tuesday, May 27,      2008 11:07 AM

          

Subject: Re:      Bounced from the Grumman Gang

          

 

     

I've played his silly f*cking game now for 10 years.       The little f*ck needs a life.  I started TeamGrumman-List because      I got bounced for sending a "Merry Christmas" to all of the Grumman owners.       F*ck him.  He has too big of an inflated image of himself.                  

 

          

Now, do you want to know how      I really feel?

--

nharney(at)nharney.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

I've had similar experiences with inexplainable censorship on the GG.  Some members seem to have been granted immunity and their posts are published regardless of content and adherence to the forum's strict guidelines.  If you aren't in that group the rules aren't quite as posted.  It's not good for the community.  



--- jamey(at)jamescourtney.net wrote:



From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>

To: <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:39:23 -0700



Astounding that people have so little else to do and are so convinced of their own ability to determine what the dialog should be.  Has anyone just called the prick out at the AYA convention or posted an article in the Star pointing out his history as the list Nazi?



 



Iâ€™m sure lots of folks would say to not bite the hand that feeds you yet thatâ€™s how you end up with governments that tax you into submission, or trample your basic freedoms, etc.  Itâ€™s not like setting up a mailing list is rocket science or even expensive or resource intensive.



 



Iâ€™ve had several posts I thought were quite constructive never make it onto the list over the years.  Why, who knowsâ€¦



 



Jamey



 



 



From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Coan

Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:24 AM

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Bounced from the Grumman Gang



 



You guys think the GG is bad, you should see the Cardinal Flyers Online for Cessna 177 folks. I paid him $39/yr., and he has to approve (and make endless comments on) every post. If he doesn't like what you have to say (doesn't happen often), he squashes it. I just want to read what the posters have to say, not the admin's. 



 



Marc Coan,



Santa Fe, NM



---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

That is still nonsense. Â A poster should not have to write and ask why his post did not get posted. Â Just out of curiosity, post a hyperlink here and see what happens. Â As you can see from this post, James Courtney's post has his email as a link. Â  

 

  No, the issue is Mark's. Â He has control issues not unlike Napoleon. Â He gets his feeling of power by controlling what he feels is or is not appropriate material. Â Just think of it as something the Communists must do to maintain control of the people they fear: those with independent thought. Â 

  

 

  There is a reason Thomas Jefferson penned thisÂ amendment as the first:

  

 

  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

 --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

I've noticed this too. Â The rules are not evenly, nor fairly, enforced. Â  

 

  But, then, what else would you expect from the Politburo?Â 

 

 

 --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

grega(at)pobox.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

 	  Quote: 	
		   Once again I got bounced from the Grumman Gang.

 What a pain in the ass...

 That dickhead running it...

 The little Hitler/Napoleon...needs to get a life...

 The little f*ck anyway.

 I'm tired of his childish bullsh*t.


	


Hey, Gary, I've got access to the Mailman interface

for the Grumman Gang, as I sub for Mark on occasion

when he goes on vacation. I've verified that you were

not unsubscribed from the list by him; all the list

admin received was a unsubscribe request, presumably

from you.



Best guess is this has something to do with AOL's

policy of requiring mailing list providers to remove

people who "complain" about receiving spam from their

lists, or have their entire site (Xmission.com, in the

case of the Grumman Gang) blacklisted from AOL mail

delivery system.



The process is also somehow semi-automated, in that

the AOL mail reader has a "this is spam" button that

users  can select while reading mail, which triggers

an automatic "unsubscribe this person or we blacklist

your site" mechanism. In order to keep the site from

being blocked, XMission admins then do the

unsubscribing of the complaining addresses above

Mark's head.



Once done, there is no way to tell if an AOLer has

unsubscribed willingly or if it was forced; all Mark

sees is the unsubscribe request. The XMission admins 

have been asked if they could at least Cc the list

when it happens but they have not responded.



Ergo, your little tirade was a bit (QUITE a bit)

misplaced and out of line. At worst, you owe Mark an

apology on this list; at best, you should contact him

directly.



I also recommend that when someone has a problem with

the Grumman Gang (privately owned, run, and paid for),

that they contact Mark directly before going off the

deep end on the (forever cached, always saved,

infinitely referenced) Internet...



Gary, I also suggest getting a *REAL* Internet Service

Provider. As an email administrator of a very large

corporation, I find AOL's email "anti-spam" policies

FAR, FAR, FAR more painful, intrusive, and anti-social

than *any* concerns over wasting email space wishing

people a Merry Christmas. I spend FAR too much time

trying to clean up after stupid AOL users who have

ZERO clue about how things work.



Frankly, I find AOL to be for Internet idiots,

something I do not believe you are.



My 2 cents.



Greg Amy

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Bounced from the Grumman Gang

Well Greg, you may be right about over reacting. Â However, you need to understand that everyone on the GG is pre-wired to get pis$ed off. Â They all knowÂ ahead of time, every time they write something, they need to walk-on-egg-shells with what they say out of fear of being bounced, either electronically or personally. Â  

 

  If it had been first time and I had no prior history, then my response would be, "OK, what happened?" Â But, that isn't the case. Â I've been bounced off of GG something like 5 times in 10 years. Â I was bounced for saying "Merry Christmas" for Cripes sake. Â Give me a break dude. Â Rules like that do not belong on a site that 'shares' information. Â 

  

 

  Mark bounced me for adding TeamGrumman after my name. Â Maybe Mark feared an open and honest approach to competition,Â hell, I don't know. Â At least that's how I viewed it. Â Actually, 'petty' is how I viewed it. Â I changed screen names and went in under an alias because I wanted to interact with GG users. Â That worked fine 3 or 4 years and then word got out who FlyingTiger0747 was. Â Funny, then I get bounced.

   

 

  If your corporation, Greg, or GG, were as big or well established as AOL and had as many users trying to disrupt your operation as AOL, you'd have issues with spam too. Â Stop suggesting I get a real internet service provider. Â What is a real internet service provider anyway? Â AOL has been around for 13 years that I know of. Â I've been using AOL without any issues since I 1995. Â Prior to AOLs inclusion of 'spam' filters, every site I looked at starting sending spam. Â Using the excuse that his particular software can't handle AOL text formatting or whatever excuse you want to add, is nonsense. Â His forum is the only one I've been bounced from. Â The net nannie, or what ever cute label you want to use, is set up to bounce pretty much anything it wants. Â How about updating the GG software from DOS. Â 

 

 ""Ergo, your little tirade was a bit (QUITE a bit)

  misplaced and out of line. At worst, you owe Mark an

  apology on this list; at best, you should contact him

  directly. 	  Quote: 	
		  I also recommend that when someone has a problem with

the Grumman Gang (privately owned, run, and paid for),

that they contact Mark directly before going off the

deep end on the (forever cached, always saved,

infinitely referenced) Internet..."  OK, I over reacted. Â I did send an email saying "Why" did I get bounced. Â No reply. Â "Mark, I apologize for losing my temper. Â I apologize for your software and internet provider not being more tolerant of different email providers. particularly AOL, and making me think it was you, personally, who bounced my emails; many of which, by-the-way, I've not seen posted over the last several months. Â I apologize for your software not being more tolerant of Christmas wishes and reacting with distain for you personally; I thought this was something you had a problem with - I did not know you had no control over your software. Â I apologize for thinking you had more of a direct influence on GG than, apparently, you do and for blaming you, personally, for bouncing me just because I use AOL text formatting (which, by-the-way, you won't see an issue with on this forum). Â I know, now, that you have no control over your site and that it's the 'admin' on Xmission who bounced me and not you. Â Please accept my apology for blaming you, personally, for me being bounced from GG. Â I know now that it was automatic and not something personal toward me. Â I seriously believed you had more of a hands-on approach to monitoring the material on GG."

In defense of GG, on the TeamGrumman-List providers sites, there have been two occasions where AOL has caused a problem with the spam filters. Â On those occasions, no notice was sent saying "You have been bounced from . . . " Â Instead, things just got very quite. Â When queried, I got an email from Matt explaining what happened. Â That approach to the 'bounced problem does not make it look like it was Matt who personally bounced someone. Â May I suggest that GG look into deleting the "you have been bounced' notice and instead wait for someone to ask 'what happened to my emails.'Gary



	
--

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

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