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akflyer
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK
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 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Slow flying... |
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I just read that in the paper this AM... I just watched the cubdriver749er video with Shaun flying in it last week... My condolences for the loss of a good friend.
This brings up flight training. During my initial training "moose hunter" or cross controlled stalls were HAMMERED into me for hours and hours. My high Alaska time instructor knew what type of flying I would be doing and we spent alot of time on bush type flying. The description of the wreck is typical moose hunter stall. You are looking at something on the ground, and stand on the rudder to swing around yet you are holding opposite aileron so your wing does not obscure your view of what ever you are looking for on the ground. Your normal stall in a cub is pretty straight ahead much like the kit fox or avid, however, in the cross controlled stall it is an immediate spin. Normally you are WAY to close to the ground to recover. Keeping that ball centered is key to staying alive.
An accelerated stall could have done the same thing but knowing how these guys fly, I am sure he was very slow simply fell into the trap that has claimed so many lives up here.
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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die.... |
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akflyer
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Slow flying... |
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http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=16178
towards the bottom of the page, Shaun's father weighs in. Sobering reading to say the least.
No one knows for sure, but his dad seems to think that he probably had his camera in his hand...
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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die.... |
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Slow flying... |
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| Quote: | Probably better not to try landing backwards with floats though, eh
Noel. Oh wait a minute, here comes Dave to tell us he's done it! : )
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Why would i try to tell you that ? I could fly backwards on floats as on any gear though with the right winds aloft. This is why i post you guys pictures and videos. Easy to separate the fact from the fiction that way.
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l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: Slow flying... |
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Here's a slightly different variation of slow flying. Many times while flying down the autobahn in Germany in a Huey doing 90 knots, I've been passed by BMWs and Mercedes. Do Not Archive Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/looking for a Jab/65%/ Flower Mound,TX
---- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Interesting to hear all the various tales of backwards/reverse
flying, here and in person. Sure opens ones eyes to the various
aspects of putting something up into the elements...thanks folks.
Probably better not to try landing backwards with floats though, eh
Noel. Oh wait a minute, here comes Dave to tell us he's done it! : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/528 hrs
On Jun 7, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Lynn:
>
>
>
> My instructor had me do the flying backwards while training
> (C172N).. We were about 5000’ over the field when we pulled the
> airspeed back to bout 60 and sure enough slowly but surely we
> drifted backwards enough that it was easy to see. On regular
> intervals he would have me slow the plane down and hang on the prop
> at full throttle until it stalled.
>
>
>
> Wind at the ground was close to 30 and I certainly wouldn’t have
> been flying solo that day.
>
>
>
> Noel Loveys
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Slow flying... |
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Reminds me of an OH-13 ferry flight I did from Ft. Rucker to Ft. Wolters in 1966! Every car westbound on Interstate 20 Was passing us. We were bucking a 40 knot wind at about 1500' AGL. Our ground speed was less than 35 knots.
John Hart
KF IV
Wilburton, OK
--
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Slow flying... |
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In 1974 my father took a flight across Canada in a VJ22 Sportsman Amphib as part of the 25 anniversary of Newfoundland joining Canada. He told me when they were crossing the Lake of the Woods there was a guy in a speed boat that passed them on the water. Later they were passing through the Rockies at one airport tow guys on bicycles left just before they got into the plane... The guys were in Yale some time before the Sportsman, nicknamed “The Newfie Bullet arrived. BTW the Newfie Bullet was the name of our now defunct narrow gauge train. It was famous for being slow and would stop for just about anything...
Noel
--
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Slow flying... |
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GS is always positive on the GPS. It took the passenger telling me we were going backwards for me to know. I was so focused on the instruments I did not notice. I thought the wind was slowing down and GS was picking up.
do not archive
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Slow flying...
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 5:16 PM
| Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Was the "backwards flying" just an observation, or did you see a
reading that was negative? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious if
your GPS or whatever instrument would show a negative speed.
Lynn
On Jun 6, 2008, at 2:59 PM, W Duke wrote:
| Quote: | I did. Smooth air but strong wind at about 3500 ft. Flaps out
just to see how slow it would go. Very near stall so I was
concentrating on airspeed, altitude, and groundspeed. The
groundspeed started to go up and my passenger said "hey we're
going
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| Quote: | backwards".
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Slow flying...
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 12:39 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
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| Quote: | I just flew my personal best (or is that worst?) slow ground speed,
covering the ground at an amazing 9 mph. The wind was about 220° (at)
7, according to the local (JXN) ATIS, but up at 3000' MSL, it was
about 37kt, according to Ft. Wayne, IN "winds aloft" reports. At
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| Quote: | any rate, I was being blown at 162mph GPS groundspeed (108mph
airspeed) toward the east, when I decided to turn back and see how
slow I could fly groundspeed into the wind. I was at 3000 MSL,
heading about 250°, and I started slowing the plane down. I kept
the same 3000 altitude until I got the groundspeed down to 20 mph,
then I started to lose elevation....about 125fpm on the VSI. I kept
throttling back until it got down to 9mph groundspeed, 55mph
airspeed, and I quit playing games when I got down to 2700' MSL.
This was with no flaps, and I think the rpm was about 1900 at that
point...not paying too much attention to that detail. I've heard
about people flying backwards, and I was pretty close to that, but
chickened out before I got over my head. Has anybody slowed their
Kitfox to a negative groundspeed? I'm not trying to claim any
records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed
more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for
doing this. Lynn Model IV Speedster, 2200 Jabiru with 520+ hours
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