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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: SB Info |
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I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is used a little more harshly than the average because of the transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: SB Info |
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It would be great if you guys would add whether you are talking K. Scott or K. Krueger when offering advice from VANS. Maybe they have a Ken in shipping, Ken on cleanup and Ken in accounting. One is their propaganda minister and the other is a certified professional aeronautical engineer. One is fairly verbose and the other fairly quiet and conservative.
This reminds me of many newspaper movie reviews that read "Ken G. of the #$% says it is a summer blockbuster hit".
JC
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: SB Info
I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is used a little more harshly than the average because of the transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
[quote][b]
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: SB Info |
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That would be Ken Krueger.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 10, 2008, at 8:39 PM, John Cox wrote:
| Quote: | It would be great if you guys would add whether you are talking K. Scott or K. Krueger when offering advice from VANS. Maybe they have a Ken in shipping, Ken on cleanup and Ken in accounting. One is their propaganda minister and the other is a certified professional aeronautical engineer. One is fairly verbose and the other fairly quiet and conservative.
This reminds me of many newspaper movie reviews that read "Ken G. of the #$% says it is a summer blockbuster hit".
JC
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: SB Info
I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is used a little more harshly than the average because of the transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
| Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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indigoonlatigo(at)MSN.COM
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: SB Info |
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The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is that the bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then backing it up with a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the area, but in the process we are fastening it onto the area with more holes/rivets. If the strain is not entirely transfered to the entire area of the interface between the doubler and the bulkhead, then the stain will be more so transferred to the fastening locations/rivets and thus can't those holes increase the chance of crack propogation.
Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a possibly better avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much larger surface area???
JOhn G. 409
[quote] From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: SB Info
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:20:51 -0400
I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is used a little more harshly than the average because of the transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: SB Info |
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My understanding from Ken Krueger is that the bulkhead is a little too thin and in the process of transferring the load from the HS to the rest of the structure it is flexing more than it should be, so the doubler helps limit the flexing to more effectively transfer the load to the rest of the structure (longerons, skins, etc.). I'd rather have rivets holding it on there than some other type of bond unless it were screws or bolts, since that is the way the plane it put together to start with.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 11, 2008, at 10:58 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:
| Quote: | The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is that the bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then backing it up with a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the area, but in the process we are fastening it onto the area with more holes/rivets. If the strain is not entirely transfered to the entire area of the interface between the doubler and the bulkhead, then the stain will be more so transferred to the fastening locations/rivets and thus can't those holes increase the chance of crack propogation.
Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a possibly better avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much larger surface area???
JOhn G. 409
| Quote: | From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: SB Info
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:20:51 -0400
I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is used a little more harshly than the average because of the transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: SB Info |
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This seems to be where we get to rely on decades worth of aluminum aircraft engineering knowledge. Using known materials and a reliable connector process applied in a specific way, we have a reliable fix. Though it's probably noteworthy that the same approach was taken with the original design that is now showing cracks (but no failures).
I'm guessing that a flexible bonding method might be superior - but I have a difficult time thinking of how a reliable bonding process could be defined and followed reliably in my shop. Temperature, surface treatment and all that. I can deburr the parts and drive a dozen rivets to a spec. I'm never 100% sure my last epoxy job is to spec.
Bill "still worrying the doors into place" Watson
John Gonzalez wrote: [quote] .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is that the bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then backing it up with a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the area, but in the process we are fastening it onto the area with more holes/rivets. If the strain is not entirely transfered to the entire area of the interface between the doubler and the bulkhead, then the stain will be more so transferred to the fastening locations/rivets and thus can't those holes increase the chance of crack propogation.
Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a possibly better avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much larger surface area???
JOhn G. 409
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: SB Info |
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The way I have happily gone building the plane is thinking that by deburring the edges and holes and assuring they are rounded spreads the stress over the specific area. With rivets that are properly squeezed (read not excessively, which would stress the hole) I think the doubler would have enough holes spread out to diminish any one area except as a whole and in turn be a stronger solution than before adding it..
P
From: John Gonzalez (indigoonlatigo(at)MSN.COM)
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:58 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: SB Info
The thing that bothers my mind about this type of repair/doubler is that the bulkhead is made of relatively thin material. We are then backing it up with a doubler that is to structurely reinforce the area, but in the process we are fastening it onto the area with more holes/rivets. If the strain is not entirely transfered to the entire area of the interface between the doubler and the bulkhead, then the stain will be more so transferred to the fastening locations/rivets and thus can't those holes increase the chance of crack propogation.
Why is not a flexible bonding method of fastening the double a possibly better avenue as it would tranfer the strain over a much larger surface area???
JOhn G. 409
[quote] From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: SB Info
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:20:51 -0400
I just got this from Ken at Van's. This explains where the damage occurred. He said that it could possibly be because their plane is used a little more harshly than the average because of the transition training, that is no license to just ignore it, which I don't think many were considering anyway. Just FYI.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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