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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

I have a set of wood wing strut fairing.  They weigh eight pounds so I guess they may be about 10 pounds total when installed.  I would like to somehow temporarily install them to find out if the benefits outweigh the weight gain.  Does anyone have a good idea how to securely attach them for some testing and then be able to easily remove?



My classic 4 has a small engine so every ounce counts.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

At 09:03 AM 6/16/2008, Tom Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anyone have a good idea how to securely attach them for some 

testing and be then be able to easily remove?


	


Sure. Duct tape.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

Tom, I will guess you will see 5 mph gain.

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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

Tom 

 

I put the plastic strut  fairings on my last 582 powered Kitfox and I gained 8mph in cruise - no one was more surprised than me! 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

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"dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

17/06/2008 10:24 AM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   cc

    Subject

 Re: Temporary strut fairing 

     

 

 

 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>

 

 Tom,  I will guess you will see 5 mph  gain.

 

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188203#188203

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

RE: temporary strut fairing.



Guy, I was thinking duct tape but it seemed so simple that I thought I must be missing something.



Dave and Gary, five to eight mph would be a good gain.  Cruise now is 75 mph at 5800 rpm.  I'm not really concerned about going fast.  Rate of climb is a priority to me.  Solo now is 800 ft/min but drops significantly with more load.  At max gross (1050 for the classic 4 with 503) on a cool day it climb rate is 400-425.  I would't even try it on a hot day here.



I like the looks of the faired struts versus the round and I think the wood fairing will add some strength too.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

Tom 

 

I'm not sure that you will see much gain in rate of climb from the strut fairings as they really become more efficient the faster you fly. 

 

that  being said I am amazed at the performance you are getting out  of that 503 - sounds like you have everything working really well. 

 

Regards 

 

Gary

 

 Classic 4 / Jab2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

"Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

17/06/2008 11:07 PM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   cc

    Subject

 Re: Temporary strut fairing 

     

 

 

 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 

 RE: temporary strut fairing.

 

 Guy, I was thinking duct tape but it seemed so simple that I thought I must be missing something.

 

 Dave and Gary, five to eight mph would be a good gain.  Cruise now is 75 mph at 5800 rpm.  I'm not really concerned about going fast.  Rate of climb is a priority to me.  Solo now is 800 ft/min but drops significantly with more load.  At max gross (1050 for the classic 4 with 503) on a cool day it climb rate is 400-425.  I would't even try it on a hot day here.

 

 I like the looks of the faired struts versus the round and I think the wood fairing will add some strength too.

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188283#188283

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

 	  Code: 	
		  I'm not sure that you will see much gain in rate of climb from the strut fairings as they really become more efficient the faster you fly. 	




Gary, thanks for thinking about this.  I wasn't actually expecting an increase in climb rate.  I just don't want to lose any climb performance due to the extra weight of the fairing.



If I can get the good looks and strength of the fairing, and not lose any climb performance, it will be worth it to me.  The increase in cruise speed will be a bonus in my way of thinking.  I wasn't very clear on that in my last post.



I know for sure I will lose about 10 pounds of useful load.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

Sorry Tom I misunderstood,  

 

I have grown a bit blase about a bit of additional weight but I can understand why you need to keep a close eye on it. I used to have a Challenger with a 503 and that little engine was probably one of the most reliable piece of machinery I ever operated. However Challenger are now offering the 582 upgrade and I have seen the difference on performance and it's pretty amazing. 

 

I also had a Kitfox 4 with 582 and that combination would easily  keep up with my current Jabiru 2200.  

 

If there is a chance, you might want to keep your eyes open for a 582 when your next rebuild is up as you would love the performance and the 10lb becomes "non-relevent" Hmm not sure if that's a real word. 

 

Best regards 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate 

Classic 4 Jab2200

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

"Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

18/06/2008 09:54 AM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   cc

    Subject

 Re: Temporary strut fairing 

     

 

 

 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 

 I'm not sure that you will see much gain in rate of climb from the strut fairings as they really become more efficient the faster you fly. 

 

 Gary, thanks for thinking about this.  I wasn't actually expecting an increase in climb rate.  I just don't want to lose any climb performance due to the extra weight of the fairing.

 

 If I can get the good looks and strength of the fairing, and not lose any climb performance, it will be worth it to me.  The increase in cruise speed will be a bonus in my way of thinking.  I wasn't very clear on that in my last post.

 

 I know for sure I will lose about 10 pounds of useful load.

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

 

 

 

 

 

 -

 -

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

Gary, I would guess the strut fairings would only weigh 5# or so. I wouldn't think they would weigh 10# with paint and everything. Just guessing. Also, the paint safety equipment distributor is Cole-Parmer , not Palmer as I told you yesterday. I ordered mine on line <coleparmer.com>, so you know the site is user friendly. But, their phone # is 800-323 4340. They are located in Verenon Hills, IL. There is no respirator filter that will handle urethanes. You have to bring in air from a remote location. 

  

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:13:17 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 

 I'm not sure that you will see much gain in rate of climb from the strut fairings as they really become more efficient the faster you fly. 

 

 Gary, thanks for thinking about this. I wasn't actually expecting an increase in climb rate. I just don't want to lose any climb performance due to the extra weight of the fairing.

 

 If I can get the good looks and strength of the fairing, and not lose any climb performance, it will be worth it to me. The increase in cruise speed will be a bonus in my way of thinking. I wasn't very clear on that in my last post.

 

 I know for sure I will lose about 10 pounds of useful load.

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188395#188395

 

 

 

&========================> 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 


	


  [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

Well the wind finally quit blowing in windy Ellensburg this morning so I was able to test the wood strut fairing attached with duct tape.



Near as I can tell true air speed at 4000 feet DA and 5800 RPM increased from 78 mph to 82 mph.  Climb rate did not change.



The biggest supprise to me was the sink rate at a 50 to 55 mph approach speed decreased a lot.  I made my normal close in base to final and over shot the first two runway exits.  I tried a second landing and was way high over the threshold again.  Is there a logical reason for this or do I just need to learn to fly again?

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

Is the fairing "streamlined," that is, in line with the line of  

flight? If not, could it be providing lift, maybe?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/545 hrs





On Jul 8, 2008, at 6:03 PM, Tom Jones wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Well the wind finally quit blowing in windy Ellensburg this morning  

 so I was able to test the wood strut fairing attached with duct tape.



 Near as I can tell true air speed at 4000 feet DA and 5800 RPM  

 increased from 78 mph to 82 mph.  Climb rate did not change.



 The biggest supprise to me was the sink rate at a 50 to 55 mph  

 approach speed decreased a lot.  I made my normal close in base to  

 final and over shot the first two runway exits.  I tried a second  

 landing and was way high over the threshold again.  Is there a  

 logical reason for this or do I just need to learn to fly again?



 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191833#191833

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is the fairing "streamlined," that is, in line with the line of 

flight? If not, could it be providing lift, maybe? 



Lynn Matteson 	




Lynn, the fairing is aligned with front and rear struts which are aligned with the bottom of the wing.  The airplane attitude at approach speed is nose high so You may be right.  Producing a little lift.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

mscotter

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

Seems pretty simple to me. Less drag = less sink. 

---

_________________
Mark Scott
Winston-Salem, NC

Mnflyer

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

Hi thats what I found with my plane when I installed the stearmline  fairings, the plane just didn't slow down like before less drag one has to make a little longer approach, once you get use to it its just like before. Another thing I found with mine is its stabler at cruise and I like the looks.

_________________
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

 	  Quote: 	
		  dave



Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 869



 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing    



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Tom, I will guess you will see 5 mph gain.

 

 	




Near as I can tell true air speed at 4000 feet DA and 5800 RPM increased from 78 mph to 82 mph. Climb rate did not change



Looks Like I was close there in my  5 mph  guessimate.     

Hopefully a little more tweaking and you will see a few more MPH .

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

I was over at the Arlington WA fly in on Friday and talked to Debora at the Kitfox LLC booth about their PVC fairing.  I liked the looks of how they have it installed on their demonstrators.  I will probably order some.  She said on their Series 7 they got a 15 mph increase in speed.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Mnflyer

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

Hi Tom, I installed the PVC type fairings in May of this year and got about 6 to 8 mph increase in cruise. I had all the balsa cut and spade when these came up for sale, and the installation is a lot simpler.

_________________
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

 	  Mnflyer wrote: 	
		  Hi Tom, I installed the PVC type fairings in May of this year and got about 6 to 8 mph increase in cruise. I had all the balsa cut and spade when these came up for sale, and the installation is a lot simpler. 	




I looked at the PVC fairing at the Arlington Fly in then ordered a set.  I test flew yesterday.  Check out the attached pictures of the Airspeed before and after.  You will have to take my word that these are both straight and level.  I don't have a VSI.  This is a Classic 4 with a 503 mind you.  I am pleasantly suprised!

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Panel before fairing.jpg

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Panel after strut fairing.jpg

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: Temporary strut fairing

Hi Tom C  that looks pretty good for the strut fairings.  About 10 MPH!!  Just curious C how did you end up with a front tank in a Kitfox 4?  I thought they went away with the Kitfox 2.  Do you also have the wing tanks?  Jim Chuk  Kitfox 4 building C Avid MK IV flying C  MN



[quote] Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Temporary strut fairing

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Wed C 6 Aug 2008 09:09:36 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 

 

 Mnflyer wrote:

 > Hi Tom C I installed the PVC type fairings in May of this year and got about 6 to 8 mph increase in cruise. I had all the balsa cut and spade when these came up for sale C and the installation is a lot simpler.

 

 

 I looked at the PVC fairing at the Arlington Fly in then ordered a set. I test flew yesterday. Check out the attached pictures of the Airspeed before and after. You will have to take my word that these are both straight and level. I don't have a VSI. This is a Classic 4 with a 503 mind you. I am pleasantly suprised!

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax C 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg C WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196919#196919

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/strut_fairing_100.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_before_fairing_572.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_after_strut_fairing_520.jpg<===

 

 

 

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Temporary strut fairing

I forgot to include the weight of the PVC fairing in my earlier post.  Bare fairing with aluminum cuff for lower ends was 11.5 pounds.



For what its worth department.  I reweighed the airplane after fairing instillation.  It has gained 26 pounds total since I weighed it a little over a year ago. 



Besides the fairing this weight includes a fire extinguisher, hand held radio on the panel, hand held GPS on the panel, portable intercom on the butt rib, operator's manual and other paper work, baggage sack with 1/4" plywood bottom, plus all the miscellaneous clamps, screws, fire sleeves and such that continue to find their way into and onto an airplane.  It all adds up to some pounds after a while.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

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