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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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When I spoke to Sam James several months ago he said that there was only one RV10 flying with his cowl and a non cold air induction engine and he was a little reluctant to say that they had perfected the receipe on the intake size.
Have any other used this combination or will the original user step forward and say what size rings they have had success with.
Thanks C
John G. 409
[quote][b]
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rv(at)thelefflers.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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This was the subject of a conversation I had with Deems Davis and Gary Specketer at RV-10 HQ at OSH. Deems went the James Cowl route with a Powers alt air mod. Gary went with a standard Van's cowl and a modified Cessna air filter.
The consensus was if they were to do it again was to to go with a standard Van's cowl and modify it depending what you are using for air.
Granted this is just a sampling of two opinions.
| Quote: |
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Date: 2008/08/26 Tue AM 11:26:35 EST
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540
When I spoke to Sam James several months ago he said that there was only one RV10 flying with his cowl and a non cold air induction engine and he was a little reluctant to say that they had perfected the receipe on the intake size.
Have any other used this combination or will the original user step forward and say what size rings they have had success with.
Thanks,
John G. 409
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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One thing I would throw in there for the non-fiberglass savvy is that both Gary and Deems have fairly extensive experience with glass given they both previously have built glass aircraft. Either cowl will require some modifications. The good news is if you go with a James cowl, Barrett cold air, and the Rod Bower FAB, Rod has a mold taken from the work that Deems did to his James cowl and the induction so you can get a molded part to minimize your rework. Here is Rod's link:
http://www.ramairforhomebuilts.com/ramair.html
Michael
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speckter(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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It has always been my opinion that fiberglass is such a forgiving medium
that all that is required for good results is the willingness to grind away
what you don't like and reglass new stuff to make it like you want.
Like anything it is a learned skill, just keep trying and have fun.
Gary Specketer
40274 flying
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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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Danger Will Robinson, Danger Will Robinson!
Michael it would be great if life were that simple... For those that don't know I have:
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>BPE IO-540 w/ Cold Induction
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>James Plenum Installed
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>James Cowl Installed
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Airworthiness certificate in hand
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>First flight ~2 weeks
Sheril & I spoke extensively with Rod (amazing builder) before & during OSH this year and there is NO good news. There is absolutely no way that Rod's unit will work with the James cowl and the BPE Cold Induction. The space between the standard “Smile” air inlet and the injector body is just too short. The angles are all wrong and the spun canister conflicts in a major way with components on the underside of the engine and the lower cowl. A major modification to the James cowl much like Deems did would be required. Our goal was to leave the “Smile” air inlet shape unaltered.
Also of note there are a couple of different Forward Facing Cold Air Induction systems available from BPE. I happen to have the latest design which is different from Deems. Additionally there are different Injector Body sizes. Mine is 3.75" known as the Model 300 while Deems has the Model 200 which is 3.25". (sizes by memory). James did not know about the different Cold Induction systems or the different size Injector Body units. His response was “REALLY? Can you measure again?”. One additional note is that both James have a bit of 2 week-itus. They have been waiting for a customer to develop a system and then send them a copy to use as a basis for designing their system. IMHO you have a shaky business model if you require your customers to be responsible for your R&D.
The largest challenge with the James cowl installation is the air box. We believe we have come up with a solution that is simple and straight forward. Our design is not 100% complete and I don’t have photos (yet) of the transition from the Injector body to the Air Filter but I should have them soon. Attached are photos of the forward portion of the air box / filter mounted to the cowl very close to the air inlet. The angle of the filter allows us to drop the lower cowl away from the portion of the air box attached to the injector body. Note that the injector body is less than 3” away from the filter. If anyone saw the Bower unit there is no way it would come close to fitting in this space.
General notes on the James Cowl. Deems has a good write up on general fit however we seemed to have different issues when fitting our cowl. There was absolutely no way to get the lower cowl to fit as is. We could get the front & right to fit but not the left. Or the left & front to fit but not the right. We fussed with it for 2 days with no luck. When all else fails pull out the saw! We split the lower cowl on the centerline of the cowl starting from the exhaust outlet (nose wheel leg slot) and ending up 5-6 inches from the scoop. This large split allowed us to easily fit all sides and give the cowl enough “relief” to attach w/o any tension. 2 hours total time once we chose this path. All that was left to do was patch the “V” void and the cowl fit perfectly. (Cowl Filter 3.jpg shows the lower cowl split patch)
I am unable to comment on the standard cowl with the any combination mentioned.
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 440 Hours
RV-10 Soon
RV-8A Purchased partially built
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
One thing I would throw in there for the non-fiberglass savvy is that both Gary and Deems have fairly extensive experience with glass given they both previously have built glass aircraft. Either cowl will require some modifications. The good news is if you go with a James cowl, Barrett cold air, and the Rod Bower FAB, Rod has a mold taken from the work that Deems did to his James cowl and the induction so you can get a molded part to minimize your rework. Here is Rod's link:
http://www.ramairforhomebuilts.com/ramair.html
Michael
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BPA(at)bpaengines.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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The only difference in the 2 systems that Robin mentions is how the intake pipes mount to the plenum chamber. On Deems and a few others (Michael), the intake pipes connect with a 72711 o-ring. With the revision A plenum, we have swedged a 1-5/8 pipe to the plenum and secure the intake pipe with a hose and 2 clamps. This makes for a better connection and gives a small increase in HP. However, it does not change the location of the plenum or the servo.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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Ok, I'll fess up with what we did. For cold air induction we used the std Vans cowling.... but also purchased a scoop with K&N filter kit that they use on the F1 Rocket. I have quite a few pics on the process... so if anyone wants more let me know. Attached are the basics.
Don McDonald
#40636
--- On Tue, 8/26/08, rv(at)thelefflers.com <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: rv(at)thelefflers.com <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: James cowl with a standard IO-540
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 10:19 AM
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
This was the subject of a conversation I had with Deems Davis and Gary
Specketer at RV-10 HQ at OSH. Deems went the James Cowl route with a Powers alt
air mod. Gary went with a standard Van's cowl and a modified Cessna air
filter.
The consensus was if they were to do it again was to to go with a standard
Van's cowl and modify it depending what you are using for air.
Granted this is just a sampling of two opinions.
| Quote: |
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Date: 2008/08/26 Tue AM 11:26:35 EST
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540
When I spoke to Sam James several months ago he said that there was only
one RV10 flying with his cowl and a non cold air induction engine and he was a
|
little reluctant to say that they had perfected the receipe on the intake size.
| Quote: |
Have any other used this combination or will the original user step
forward and say what size rings they have had success with.
|
| Quote: |
Thanks,
John G. 409
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Don A. McDonald
40636 |
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Lenny Iszak
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270
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blalmarz(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: James cowl with a standard IO-540 |
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I have a James cowl and plenum with an Air flow FI and Std air box
from Van's. The fit of the cowl and plenum were pretty good but not
alot of overlap to play with. I had to make some mods for the FI
control arms. I used the Std intake ring and cooling rings Sam
supplied, and used baffle material for the seals. I used Alex's
finned grills on the sides of the bottom cowl for more cooling down
here in FL. I also used Sam's main wheel pants and Van's nose wheel
pant.
All in all I am pleased with the results. I have only made one long
trip so far, but I was truing out about 175 kts. at 8500' (at) 22
squared, 14 gph on a warm day at gross wt. I was running rich of peak
and #6 was my hottest cylinder (at) 390 f and oil temp 210 f. I have
about 50 hrs on the airframe.
E-mail me off line for any more questions and when I get more Perf
data I will post it.
Blue Skys Barry
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com
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