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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Martin, what did the guys at QSP cover your glare shield with? Doug
described it as auto rock guard paint but I haven't been able to find it.
-- Craig
--
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lrm(at)skyhawg.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Hey, I just noticed that you put two little windows in like I did. It really helps with the view doesn't it. Seems like it should be standard. Take care and thank you,
Larry N1345L
mwpicard wrote: [quote] | Quote: | --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "mwpicard" <mwpicard(at)gmail.com> (mwpicard(at)gmail.com)
Larry,
thanks for your reply and for all the ideas you shared with me that made my 701 better. The pod is great see:
http://picasaweb.google.com/mwpicard/PicardZenithCH701#
You made it really well and even fitted it to your plane so that it went on mine without and changes. thanks! I haven´t actually put anything in it yet but I have flown around with it on heaps. You lose about 3mph at cruise speed but don´t seem to lose any ¨STOLness¨. I hope others know that you are selling these because they are definitely worth it - great additions to the plane for long trips.
cheers,
Martin
N69999
Read this topic online here:
[url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5289#205289]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5289#205289[/url]
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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[b]
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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I like that term!
I also like the windows on the website, I plan on this too, when someday I get that far! 
do not archive
| mwpicard wrote: | | ¨STOLness¨ |
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_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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mwpicard
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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IF I were to do the windows again, I would think about a suggestion from Doug Dugger to make one of the windows opening so you have easy access to the baggage compartment as well.
martin
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lgold(at)quantum-associat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Jean-Paul,
Glad to.., but I don't know how to send pictures through matronics.com
[quote] From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Roy
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:45 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Les, why not share it with the gang ?
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de : Sam, 20.9.08, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> a crit :
[quote]De: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Objet: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: samedi 20 Septembre 2008, 0 h 06
[quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Les Goldner" <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> Martin, Glad you found the fuel starvation problem. My take on the bulkhead hole is that you could probably do it, possibly hinging a door, but why not put some reinforcement in the bulkhead first? I put a BRS chute on this bulkhead. I needed to strengthen it first and could show you how I did it. Write directly to me if you want a picture of what I did. Les > --
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royjp(at)yahoo.ca
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Me either Les but I hope someone chimes in on this
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de : Lun, 22.9.08, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> a écrit:
[quote]De: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Objet: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
À: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: lundi 22 Septembre 2008, 14 h 35
Jean-Paul,
Glad to.., but I don't know how to send pictures through matronics.com
[quote] From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Roy
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:45 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Les, why not share it with the gang ?
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de : Sam, 20.9.08, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> a écrit :
[quote]De: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Objet: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
À: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: samedi 20 Septembre 2008, 0 h 06
[quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Les Goldner" <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> Martin, Glad you found the fuel starvation problem. My take on the bulkhead hole is that you could probably do it, possibly hinging a door, but why not put some reinforcement in the bulkhead first? I put a BRS chute on this bulkhead. I needed to strengthen it first and could show you how I did it. Write directly to me if you want a picture of what I did. Les > --
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Just send the picture as a regular attachment to your e-mail. It will either appear as a regular attachment on a link will be added at the bottom of the message. If the picture/file is large (more than 100,000 to 300,000 bytes or 100 to 300 kB) you might resize it.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Roy
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:48 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Me either Les but I hope someone chimes in on this
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de : Lun, 22.9.08, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> a écrit :
De: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Objet: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
À: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: lundi 22 Septembre 2008, 14 h 35
Jean-Paul,
Glad to.., but I don't know how to send pictures through matronics.com [quote]
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Roy
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:45 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Les, why not share it with the gang ?
Jean-Paul Roy
--- En date de : Sam, 20.9.08, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> a écrit :
De: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Objet: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
À: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: samedi 20 Septembre 2008, 0 h 06 | Quote: | | --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Les Goldner"<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> Martin,Glad you found the fuel starvation problem. My take on the bulkhead hole isthat you could probably do it, possibly hinging a door, but why not put somereinforcement in the bulkhead first? I put a BRS chute on this bulkhead. Ineeded to strengthen it first and could show you how I did it. Writedirectly to me if you want a picture of what I did.Les <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> |
0[quote]> --
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randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Do Not Archive
This is from the list FAQ
There is more there but this should help get you started
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Randall J Hebert
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:14 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Just send the picture as a regular attachment to your e-mail. It will either appear as a regular attachment on a link will be added at the bottom of the message. If the picture/file is large (more than 100,000 to 300,000 bytes or 100 to 300 kB) you might resize it.
| | - The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List |
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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The file and photo share is fine (but takes time) if you want the item to stay around forever. But for one-offs you can also just attach “reasonable” sized files to your posts.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randall J. Hebert
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:43 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Do Not Archive
This is from the list FAQ
There is more there but this should help get you started
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Randall J Hebert
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:14 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Just send the picture as a regular attachment to your e-mail. It will either appear as a regular attachment on a link will be added at the bottom of the message. If the picture/file is large (more than 100,000 to 300,000 bytes or 100 to 300 kB) you might resize it.
~, gӓ
[quote][b]
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lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Thanks guys for the advice regarding sending pics through matronics.
I have attached two pictures taken during the construction of N67MG that show the reinforcement to the baggage compartment back wall used to support my BRS chute. The reinforcement consists of some big gussets with Ls on their sides, and horizontal Ls top and bottom. The heavy vertical Ls close to the center hold the chute.
Also, see the full-height cargo door on the pilot side of the compartment in the pictures. I can get my 20# folding bike through this door and have cargo nets forward of the door so nothing heavy falls to the back.
Rgds,
Les
| Quote: | From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:57 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
The file and photo share is fine (but takes time) if you want the item to stay around forever. But for one-offs you can also just attach “reasonable” sized files to your posts.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randall J. Hebert
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:43 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Do Not Archive
This is from the list FAQ
There is more there but this should help get you started
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Randall J Hebert
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:14 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Just send the picture as a regular attachment to your e-mail. It will either appear as a regular attachment on a link will be added at the bottom of the message. If the picture/file is large (more than 100,000 to 300,000 bytes or 100 to 300 kB) you might resize it.
~, gӓ
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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bobkat
Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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I had my BRS mounted similarly to where your is, only on the front side of the firewall. The DAR warned me that the CG would be too far back, and although the plane was well built and perfectly safe in every other way, he insisted that the BRS be taken out and weight added forward before the first flight! Being stupid and stubborn, I thought I knew better and flew it like that, and though I hate to admit it, I almost paid a heavy price for doing so! The plane was almost uncontrolable at low speed, and I finally got it on the ground, but when it slowed during the flare the nose took off like a homesick angel and then slammed down on the turf, flattening the front fork. I made several passes at the runway, using every bit of skill I had gleaned from 3,000+ hours of flying everything from ultralights on up. When it slowed down the nose raised, the tail dropped and it became so sluggish it was virtually uncontrollable! Very unsafe, at least in my airplane!
I now have it mounted immediately behind the pilot/copilot seats, so that one can use it as a head rest. I also moved the battery forward to the front of the firewall to try to move the seriously aft CG forward. Now it flies OK, but I'd be really concerned about the placement of your BRS!
The only thing I had changed in the tail to move the CG backward was X braces made of L angle aluminum as an anti-oil-canning thing, but this probably wasn't of too much consequence. Basically the placement of my "safety" chute almost became a "killer" chute.
I hate to admit how stupid and arrogant I was regarding the CG, but if it saves someone else from making the same mistake, what the heck........
What was unsafe in my plane MIGHT be safe in yours, but be very very careful!
If you keep it like tht, be awfully sure of your weights and your calculations regarding the CG!
[quote] ---
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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I guess this is a rather dumb question but,,,, Didnt you put the plane on scales after all your mods and just before the first flight to run the CG numbers?
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "BokKat" <bobkat(at)btinet.net> wrote:
I had my BRS mounted similarly to where your is, only on the front side of the firewall. The DAR warned me that the CG would be too far back, and although the plane was well built and perfectly safe in every other way, he insisted that the BRS be taken out and weight added forward before the first flight! Being stupid and stubborn, I thought I knew better and flew it like that, and though I hate to admit it, I almost paid a heavy price for doing so! The plane was almost uncontrolable at low speed, and I finally got it on the ground, but when it slowed during the flare the nose took off like a homesick angel and then slammed down on the turf, flattening the front fork. I made several passes at the runway, using every bit of skill I had gleaned from 3,000+ hours of flying everything from ultralights on up. When it slowed down the nose raised, the tail dropped and it became so sluggish it was virtually uncontrollable! Very unsafe, at least in my airplane!
I now have it mounted immediately behind the pilot/copilot seats, so that one can use it as a head rest. I also moved the battery forward to the front of the firewall to try to move the seriously aft CG forward. Now it flies OK, but I'd be really concerned about the placement of your BRS!
The only thing I had changed in the tail to move the CG backward was X braces made of L angle aluminum as an anti-oil-canning thing, but this probably wasn't of too much consequence. Basically the placement of my "safety" chute almost became a "killer" chute.
I hate to admit how stupid and arrogant I was regarding the CG, but if it saves someone else from making the same mistake, what the heck........
What was unsafe in my plane MIGHT be safe in yours, but be very very careful!
If you keep it like tht, be awfully sure of your weights and your calculations regarding the CG!
[quote] ---
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cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:44 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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I had the same question --- wondering what the numbers were??
do not archive
[quote] ---
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bobkat
Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Yes I sure did and with certified scales too, twice even. I have the numbers out in the hangar and I'll get them and post them. The DAR and I both worked with the numbers half the afternoon and in inches (he wanted inches, not cm) it worked out to around 19 - 20, at the rear of the envelope. He wnted it to be 15 or less, a forward CG.
He was insistent that for the first flight the plane with fuel, pilot, etc. HAD to be in the forward half of the CG range. Mine with the BRS was at the aft edge of the CG range. I weighed it twice and then once more since the BRS and battery was moved up, and used certified scales, etc. to do it.
I have the usual Rotax 912/Skyshops FWF kit. Nothing at all to shift the CG rearward other than the X braces in the fuselage which can't weigh more than a few pounds.
Like everyone point out, evdery plane is different, although most of them are stock. I do have 4 gas tanks in mine, but only am using two the outer two being empty. That shouldn't send the CG back much either.
My empty CG is not 14 with the BRS installed in the forward baggage compartment. Shifts only to about 16 - 17 with full fuel and the the FAA's two 180 pound pilots.
Flies like a dream, now.
In 35 years flying, I'd never flown a seriously aft CG aitplane, and I never sant to do so again! The BRS location might be OK on your airplane, but check and recheck it before you fly it. It was quite a job to move it forward 2 feet - had to move the plastic blow out piece, etc. Great now, though.
[quote] ---
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bobkat
Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Not a dumb question regarding CG issues at all! In inches (the DAR wanted it figured out in inches) the CG was about at the 19 inch mark with 20 being at the edge of the envelope. From 11 to 20 inches according to ZAC.
After the first almost disasterous flight, our EAA group including two A & P's concluded that though the plane was withing the CG limits, albeit at the edge, probably as one gets closer to the aft limit of the cg things get a lot more critical. In fct, we carefully went over the plane and ran plumb bobs where we all agreed the various weights might be, the fuel tanks, the seats, etc. and they didn't agree 100% with numbers from the factory or what another builder in northern Minn had used! An inch more or less makes a small difference in overall W & B which gets more critical when you get closer to the edge of the CG envelope! The moral of the story is to be awfully careful as you approach the edge of the envelope.
"All the mods" in my airplane are ONLY the placement of X braces and their rivets in the tail section, a mod that many people have done. This adds pretty well no significant weight to the tail (a couple of pounds, maybe) and no other mod was made to the entire airplace other than long range tanks (four 10 gallon wing tanks instead of two) Othersise NO mods at all! Standard kit!
My DAR was insistent that the CG be in the front half for the first flight! He said his boss in the Minneapolis office insists on that. After working the math for half the afternoon, we decided that the only way to get the CG in the front half of the envelope would be to remove the BRS and even add a few pounds of lead in the forward part of the cockpit, and only put 10 gallons of gas in the tanks. This would put the CG into the forward half.
I thought this was overkill as I had seen pictures of planes with a BRS against the baggage comprtment bulkhead, although in retrospect those were the earilier baggage compartments which were shorter than the extended one that is now used. I thought I knew better than the DAR as my plane was within the envelope so launched with the BRS on the baggage compartment bulkhead, 20 gallons of gas, no lead, etc. With the cg in this position the plane was almost uncontrollable at low speeds and almost ended up in disaster! ;I escaped with only a bent nose fork and bruised ego!
It looks to me like your BRS will end up even behind mine, and unless your engine mount is longer or a heavier engine you could be setting yourself up for problems. But every airplane is a little bit different even though they are standard kits and who knows? You might be OK!
I have a standard FWF package from Skyshops and a Rotax 912 S which obviously would not balance that 25 - 30 pound BRS way back there in my airplane. One can't beat the laws of physics, unfortunately. The laws of physics almost beat ME, instead! Never again.
Which is why I'm cautioning anyone who contemplates putting their BRS way back there. These airplanes are light and a few pounds way back there might make quite a difference. If the builder has a heavier engine or longer engine mount that I have, it might work out OK. Even with a 912 you MIGHT get away with it, depending on all the other little factors involved in building a plane, although being kits they are pretty well much the same. But even your strengthening the fuselage in that area will shift the CG a little bit back. Every little bit makes a difference on these light airplanes.
I built a Starduster 2 before the 701 and they tend to have an aft CG at best which had to be overcome by either a longer engine mount or a heavier engine. I love power and aerobatics, so put on a heavier engine to kill two birds with one rock! Hah!
After sending your pictures around to several other EAA'rs who have all built at least one airplane including 2 A &P's and who have all inspected my airplane before and after the first sort-of-flight and almost had the opportunity to analyze the wreckage, the most poignant one I recieved back is quoted:
This is BIG TROUBLE!
[quote][b]
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bobkat
Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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I was noticing your big door to the baggage compartment. I have a couple of 20 inch folding bikes, but these weigh around 20 - 25 pounds apiece, so if you add ANOTHER 25 pounds back there I'd be doubly cautious! Not being critical, just cautious......
The idea of a door to the baggage compartment is a good one though. How did you build it so as not to weaken the airframe? I'd be quite interested in this. Thanks Bob
[quote][b]
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lgold(at)quantum-associat
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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My 701 with a Rotax 100HP and a BRS behind the baggage compartment weights 650# and has an empty CG of 374cm behind the front of the slats. (500cm is max.)
Les
[quote] From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:44 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
I had the same question --- wondering what the numbers were??
do not archive
[quote] ---
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions |
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Les, where did you mount your battery?
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:13 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
My 701 with a Rotax 100HP and a BRS behind the baggage compartment weights 650# and has an empty CG of 374cm behind the front of the slats. (500cm is max.)
Les | Quote: |
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:44 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
I had the same question --- wondering what the numbers were??
do not archive
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
I guess this is a rather dumb question but,,,, Didnt you put the plane on scales after all your mods and just before the first flight to run the CG numbers?
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "BokKat" <bobkat(at)btinet.net (bobkat(at)btinet.net)> wrote:

I had my BRS mounted similarly to where your is, only on the front side of the firewall. The DAR warned me that the CG would be too far back, and although the plane was well built and perfectly safe in every other way, he insisted that the BRS be taken out and weight added forward before the first flight! Being stupid and stubborn, I thought I knew better and flew it like that, and though I hate to admit it, I almost paid a heavy price for doing so! The plane was almost uncontrolable at low speed, and I finally got it on the ground, but when it slowed during the flare the nose took off like a homesick angel and then slammed down on the turf, flattening the front fork. I made several passes at the runway, using every bit of skill I had gleaned from 3,000+ hours of flying everything from ultralights on up. When it slowed down the nose raised, the tail dropped and it became so sluggish it was virtually uncontrollable! Very unsafe, at least in my airplane!
I now have it mounted immediately behind the pilot/copilot seats, so that one can use it as a head rest. I also moved the battery forward to the front of the firewall to try to move the seriously aft CG forward. Now it flies OK, but I'd be really concerned about the placement of your BRS!
The only thing I had changed in the tail to move the CG backward was X braces made of L angle aluminum as an anti-oil-canning thing, but this probably wasn't of too much consequence. Basically the placement of my "safety" chute almost became a "killer" chute.
I hate to admit how stupid and arrogant I was regarding the CG, but if it saves someone else from making the same mistake, what the heck........
What was unsafe in my plane MIGHT be safe in yours, but be very very careful!
If you keep it like tht, be awfully sure of your weights and your calculations regarding the CG!
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Goldner (lgold(at)quantum-associates.com)
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Thanks guys for the advice regarding sending pics through matronics.
I have attached two pictures taken during the construction of N67MG that show the reinforcement to the baggage compartment back wall used to support my BRS chute. The reinforcement consists of some big gussets with Ls on their sides, and horizontal Ls top and bottom. The heavy vertical Ls close to the center hold the chute.
Also, see the full-height cargo door on the pilot side of the compartment in the pictures. I can get my 20# folding bike through this door and have cargo nets forward of the door so nothing heavy falls to the back.
Rgds,
Les
| Quote: |
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:57 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
The file and photo share is fine (but takes time) if you want the item to stay around forever. But for one-offs you can also just attach “reasonable†sized files to your posts.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randall J. Hebert
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:43 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Do Not Archive
This is from the list FAQ
There is more there but this should help get you started
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Randall J Hebert
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:14 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions
Just send the picture as a regular attachment to your e-mail. It will either appear as a regular attachment on a link will be added at the bottom of the message. If the picture/file is large (more than 100,000 to 300,000 bytes or 100 to 300 kB) you might resize it.
~,
gÓ“
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