mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: OFF TOPIC Re: Missing man formation and a waste of bandwidt |
 |
|
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of cjpilot710(at)aol.com (Pappy)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Re: Missing man formation
| Quote: | Did I ever say or infer that I received service wings?
|
| Quote: | From your reply, it sure seemed that way to me. That's why I asked the question. Sorry if it made you angry.
|
| Quote: | I guess if the point here is that I should some how qualify as an expert by a back ground check so be it.
|
I was just asking the question, but yes... since you mention it, if you are going to come across as being an expert on any military subject, it helps to have personal experience. Not required by any means, but it sure gives you more credibility.
| Quote: | I hope I didn't claim being an expert only my view on what is really a subject of the heart.
|
It's always BEEN a matter of the heart, but in some cases and with some things it is also a matter of military tradition. I do not claim to be an expert on that, but I think that 38 years of personal first hand experience might make me a tad more familiar with military aviation courtesy and tradition than someone who has much less than that. Of course I could be wrong.
| Quote: | I had my first flight lesson at age 15 in the CAP.
|
And my Dad took me flying while I was still in my Mothers womb. So?
| Quote: | By the time I graduated from high school, I had my commercial and instructors rating.
|
By the time I was 21 I was a Sgt. in the Marine Corps with one tour in Vietnam under my belt.
| Quote: | After two years (and 2,500 hours) as a flight instructor, I got a job flying a DC-3 in the Bahamas.
|
I flew my first DC-3 out of CCK Taiwan.
| Quote: | When the daft board said my number was coming up, I enlisted in the Army.
|
And I quit high school to join the Marines and kill those Commie SOB's!
| Quote: | I requested helicopter school. (at the time I had a commercial helicopter ticket)
|
And I requested EW school so I could be an EWO in the EA-6A.
| Quote: | I flunk the eye test with 20/24 in my left eye and the Army decided to make me a missile man.
(As an E-4 I got 3 hours in the left seat of a C-124. Great story!)
|
I flunked my eye exam also, which killed my chances of becoming a pilot, but could stll be an NFO.
| Quote: | I was honorably discharged 36 months later and went to work as a navigator for PAA in Jan. 66.
|
I was honorably discharged 20 years later and became a Tech Rep. Then went to war again in Desert Storm.
| Quote: | >After 20 years there flying 707 & 747s as a copilot, UAL brought the Pacific division and me and 429 other >pilots went over with it.
|
After 18 years, I am still supporting the Marines in combat in every place on the planet that Marines go,
| Quote: | My gold wings may have been earned in the dull environment of an airlines training facility BUT they were "chick >magnates" just the same. And the last time I looked, airplanes flew under the same rules and in the same ever >changing sky.
|
Glad to hear it. I expect I am smart enough to never question your knowledge of the world of commercial aviation. It's history, it's methods, and your contribution to it. I am a small mote of dust on the top of the shelf compared to you when it comes to that. I have no problem admitting that. However, military and commercial aviation are ANYTHING but the same Pappy. And while I have respect for your achievements in commercial aviation, that does not qualify you to say what is, or is not military customs and courtesy. Sorry.
| Quote: | As I look back on all the missing man formations I've done, I realize I've never done them in anything but military >machines.
|
I have no doubt of it.
| Quote: | (I guess I've unconsciously drawn a line somewhere there).
|
As have I.
| Quote: | But if I get the drift of your question, that does not qualify me as appropriate to participate.
|
My question was simple and straight forward. Where did you earn your military wings. Answer: You never did.
What you read into that is your business. What I get from it is simple. Your opinion is always worth something, but it would have been worth a lot more had you earned your wings in the military. You can not qualify to be appropriate. You are of course qualified to fly airplanes. You are of course qualified to fly formation. Whether it is appropriate to fly a missing man formation for someone who was never a military aviator, it is clear that there is a strong difference in opinion.
So... why not call up the military and ask THEM to fly a missing man formation for someone and see what they say. I'll rest my case on their answer.
| Quote: | And I get the impression that I could not change that impression. (sort of like talking to a democrat) 
|
Not without a common base of experience no. So you like Obama?
| Quote: | But where was the military on the days I flew over the ceremonies for the flying vets of WW2, Korea, or VN?
|
Good question, where were they?
| Quote: | Where were their squadrons mates?
|
I have no idea.
| Quote: | If no one is to honor them, than no honor should be given?
|
I assume you asked the military to do it. What was their reply Pappy?
| Quote: | According to legend
|
Actually according to historic accounts......
| Quote: | the first missing man formation was flown for von Richthofen in WW1 by the RAF. I have read in other places, >that wasn't so, that just a wreath was dropped over his field. I don't know the truth. If the legend is true, than the >"honor" was not flown for a departed squadron mate, but for a deadly adversary. I guess such dichotomies were >normal in that new age of war fair.
|
Whatever Pappy.
| Quote: | "Imitation is the greatest compliment"
|
So insist that the poor guy get buried at Arlington. Or does the military say NO to that no matter how many people think otherwise? For that matter go out and buy a Medal of Honor at some Army NAvy store and wear that thing because all your friends and family think you did such great things in life that you deserve it. You're darn tootin there are certain lines that should never be crossed... the question is where you draw them. You and I draw them at two different places. I think I am right and so do you. It is unlikely that more can be gained by talking about it any further.
| Quote: | You have the last word.
|
Last word.
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
