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messydeer
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA
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 Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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I'm just about ready to alodine and chromate. Have a few questions first.
I think the Alodine requires a 3 minute dwell time. More makes a thicker coat, which I guess isn't helpful. I don't have big tanks or want to make any, so I'm thinking of a way to do the skins. Right now they'll be small, vstab, hstab, etc.
So I was thinking of making a very shallow, like 1", tray so I could lay the one side of the skin in at a time. Leave it for 3 minutes then flop it over. Or I could soak a sponge or rag in Alodine and lay it on the metal. Move it every 3 minutes. Any suggestions?
I am considering using spray cans of tempo zinc chromate for all interior surfaces after the alodine, but not sure if any thicker coat is needed for the mating surfaces. If so, would it be better to brush it on? What is the best thickness? Is there any issue of electrical conductivity?
Thanks!
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btucke73(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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I used a spray bottle, and sprayed the parts evenly.
Trying to dip parts proved much too difficult due to
not only size, but shape. In the Navy, we used
cheesecloth (thread count of about 15) to keep odd
shaped surfaces wet with alodine.
R/
Brandon
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JohnDRead(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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Hi Dan:
You might want to consider one of the latest coatings that can
be brushed or sprayed onto surfaces, the Zenith web site mentions a couple of
products. Chromate chemicals are not very friendly to the environment either.
Regards, John (starting a 701)
phone: 303-648-3261
fax:303-648-3262
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messydeer
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA
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bsteer(at)gwi.net
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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You may find that the spray cans have a tendency to clog. Various fixes for
clogging can be found in the archives.
You may also want to consider buying chromate in quart cans. It can then be
thinned with lacquer thinner and applied with a brush or rag. There's no
spray mist to worry about if you do it that way, but you should still
protect yourself with gloves since lacquer thinner attacks the kidneys.
Bill
| Quote: | I'm pretty much sold on zinc chromate. I am aware of and prepared for its
hazards. It comes in $5 spray cans and has been proven over time.
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Trainnut01(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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My XL is my second kit. Previously I built one of Van's RV's. Van's
recommended preparing the metal with Martin-Senour Twin Etch and then spraying with
zinc chromate.
I used that method on the RV and I am now using it on my Zodiac. I am using
the Tempo rattle cans and I found the best price at SkyGeek.com.
Carroll Jernigan
XL wings
do not archive
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planejim(at)bellsouth.net
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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RVs use 2024 Alclad aluminum don't they. Different metal than 6061-T6
(silicone throughout not clad).
Jim Hoak
do not archive
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dredmoody(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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Some questions come to mind regarding the current anti-corrosion thread:
First, how much trouble, expense and weight would be invoved in spraying all the inner surfaces of the plane with Zinc Oxide self-etching primer from rattle cans as the construction progresses? We're talking about a light coat, not a thick coat like spraying the color coat on the outside surface. Zinc Oxide is much friendlier to the user even if it is not the gold standard like Zinc Chromate.
Second, even if you live and fly only in the desert and never park the plane near farm property where corrosive fertilizers abound, or near salt water, or industrial areas that experince acid rain, wouldn't it be nice to know that if and when you sell the plane or move it to another location that you had the problem taken care of in advance?
Even if 6061-T6 is corrosion resistant, I recall somebody on the list recently having fits with corrosion on 6061-T6 and 2024-T3 or T4 Alclad materials that had been stored damp for a few months or so. Even in the desert dew can form. If moisture can condense on exposed surfaces with the right temperature changes, why isn't there enough moisture to condense inside the plane?
If you are going to use carb heat to avoid ice in the carb, why isn't that atmospheric moisture a concern regarding corrosion inside the plane?
IMHO, if you don't want to do any anti-corrosion treatment or want to do only limited treatment, that's fine. Still it doesn't seem like too much expense, weight, or bother to prime the inside surfaces with Zinc Oxide rattle cans.
Ed Moody II
Rayne LA
601XL waiting on kit
Do Not Archive
Do Not Bite My Head Off Either
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messydeer
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
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Thanks again, folks 
That person who had corrosion problem recently with sheets stored outside was me. That's partly why I'm going down the alodine/chromate route.
Here's what I've learned about 2 different brands of spray zinc chromate:
Tempo Marine or Aviation Zinc Chromate
Talked with Tempo this morning, who forwarded me to Valspar 800-431-5928, makers of the product. Aviation and marine labels are the same product, just different labels. Shelf life is 2 years. I don't know much about spraying, so asked about coverage and application.
2 coats are recommended. Each coat consists of a vertical series and a horizontal series of strokes. 12-14 square feet coverage per can, I think with 2 coats. Your 'hand shadow' should be visible after each coat and with no silver color showing through. I'm not sure exactly what a 'hand shadow' means, but evidently you won't see one if it's too thin? MSDS reports 10-15% zinc chromate.
Orr-lac zinc chromate
Made by Spray Products Corporation, 800-543-7710. MSDS shows 10.1% zinc chromate.
My Take
Orr-lac is a dollar or so cheaper per can than Tempo. They both meet some government spec of TT-P-1757A Type II. When I talked with Orr-lac, they transferred me to a chemist, who didn't know coverage rates or what percent zinc chromate there product was. He was to fax that info but it hasn't arrive yet. I think he is an example of what happens if you never use a respirator mask around toxic chemicals.
On the contrary, the Tempo lady had all this info at the tip of her tongue. And more people use Tempo. So I think I'll go with them. Best price online for either of them is Skygeek.com, ~$5 for Tempo. They were the ones that ended up sending me the msds for Orr-lac. They also seem to have a fixed shipping cost of $5 per order, so I may order 10 cans later, after I experiment with the 2 brands.
Cheers!
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