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gross weights

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pbuttles(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: gross weights

what gross is everyone using and what restictions have you put in for v speeds?

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: gross weights

Tracy,

Zenith says Gross is 1100# on my plans, but I have flown my 701 at a 1300#

gross by degrading "G"s to +5Gs and -2.5Gs. 

On page 7-G-3 of my plans, Zenith says Vf (max with flaps) is 60-mph, Va

(maneuvering) is 85-mph and Vne (never exceed) is 110-mph. However, my flaps

can be extended 5, 10, 15, or 20 degrees and I fly with 5-degrees at 70-mph

to keep the nose down so I can see over the cowling when slow-flying. Once I

forgot to raise the flaps and went 80-mph with 15-degrees extended for about

1/2 hour without any apparent damage.

Les



[quote] --

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: Re: gross weights

Les,



This has been tickling at the back of my mind for awhile.

When you say you degrade to +5 -2.5 Gs to fly at 1300 lbs, what does this mean? Are you making a log book entry to document this or....?

Would this hold up to a FAA representative with scales? 

If it is a log book entry, can you list the airplane at the different gross weights with the min/max Gs for each form the start?



No opinion ether way, its just been in the back of my mind and I thought I'd ask.



Do not archive



Thanks

Kevin

_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Last edited by kmccune on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: gross weights

It is an experimental,,, WE can haul as much weight as we see fit. Just call it a "test flight" If he is under the LSA rules then the max  weight limit must be observed. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> wrote:

--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>



Les,



This has been tickling at the back of my mind for awhile.

When you say you degrade to +5 -2.5 Gs to fly at 1300 lbs, what does this mean? Are you making a log book entry to document this or....?

Would this hold up to a FAA representative with scales? 

If it is a log book entry, can you list the airplane at the different gross weights with the min/max Gs for each form the start?



No opinion ether way, its just been in the back of my mind and I thought I'd ask.



Thanks

Kevin



--------

Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.





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kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Re: gross weights

Thanks I didn't realize that... and sorry I didn't mean to highjack the thread.



do not archive



Kevin

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: gross weights

Kevin,

I don't have the regs in front of me, but I know you have to have your

weight and Balance info in the aircraft and I include the max G info with

this. In a certified aircraft, the aircraft flight manual provided by the

manufacturer includes all this information so I guess you need to keep it

your flight manual. 

The calculations are simple. Zenith says the plane can operate at 1100# at

maximum 6+ and 3- "G"s. If you rate the plane at 1300# you can calculate the

reduced maximum G forces with the following formula: +6 or -3 x (1100/1300).

Les



[quote] --

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: gross weights

Can you then have more then one gross listed with max Gs listed for each?



Kevin

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: gross weights

Kevin,



Now I don't want to misquote Chris Heintz but, somewhere in my documentation, he discusses this and says the 1100 lb gross is at +6 -3 G range.  Then, if memory serves me correctly, he says that if you load the airplane to 1150 lbs, the effective G rating is +4 -2 G.



And, I think (there I go again) that this is the ultimate rating, not the design load.



I am going to go through those notebooks and double check this.  I certainly don't want to stir up any controversy, and as Ben stated it is experimental, which covers a multitude of sins.



Tommy Walker in Alabama

 	  kmccune wrote: 	
		  Les,



This has been tickling at the back of my mind for awhile.

When you say you degrade to +5 -2.5 Gs to fly at 1300 lbs, what does this mean? Are you making a log book entry to document this or....?

Would this hold up to a FAA representative with scales? 

If it is a log book entry, can you list the airplane at the different gross weights with the min/max Gs for each form the start?



No opinion ether way, its just been in the back of my mind and I thought I'd ask.



Do not archive



Thanks

Kevin

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: gross weights

Hi Tommy,



Yes, I know what the plans say and that 4 and 2 are the design limits. 

I'm just trying to decipher the intent of that formula and the regulations surrounding using it.



Kevin



Do not archive

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: gross weights

I just reread what I wrote, it sounded a littler sharp, this was not my intent.  But the message does communicate what I was after... I can be  a bit intense when I'm on the trail of something....good thing I'm married to an angle named Amy, who puts up with me all the time! 



Kevin

do not archive

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: gross weights

On Page 7-G-3 of the plans for the 701, the "G" formula I quoted earlier

(1100/gross weight) is used and there is nothing written about +4/-2 Gs.

However, the plans do mention a 1.5 safety factor, which would put the

numbers in line with the +4/-2 figures. I wonder however, if you build the

plane carefully, do you need to use this safety factor knowing that Heintz'

test showed the plane can tolerate +6/-4 at 1100#.

Les  



[quote] --

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