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IO-360-B Power Chart?

 
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riffeljl(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this

For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(99hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...

For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(117hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n

...

For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(135hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...


I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table.

Thanks in Advance.
[quote][b]

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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These rule
of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on installation. If you
want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.

J Riffel wrote:
Quote:
Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for
the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this

For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(99hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...

For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(117hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...

For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(135hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...

I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS.
But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what
RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to
derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a
table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an
altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they
just think I can't read their table.

Thanks in Advance.
*

*


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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:39 am    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of
rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into
account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on
an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73%
power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.

If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed
prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the
power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for
the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if
they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet:

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401

Kevin Horton

On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:

Quote:


Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These
rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on
installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.

J Riffel wrote:
> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart
> for the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (99hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (117hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (135hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for
> DAYS. But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20
> minutes what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart
> is built to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP.
> Instead I need a table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've
> been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and
> Superior and they just think I can't read their table.
> Thanks in Advance.
> *
>
> *

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada

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tracy(at)rotaryaviation.c
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:45 am    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
Hate to sound critical, but I have to agree with Lycoming. Do you have a tach? Do you have MP gauge? If so, what is the problem? Altitude has almost nothing to do with it other than a small effect on pumping losses which can safely be ignored in this case.

Tracy Crook

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:16 PM, J Riffel <riffeljl(at)gmail.com (riffeljl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this

For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(99hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...

For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(117hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n

...

For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(135hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...


I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table.

Thanks in Advance.
Quote:


[b]

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tracy(at)rotaryaviation.c
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:01 am    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
Wow, this looks like about 20 HP in pumping losses at sea level at 23" MP. Sounds like a lot. I'm interested, where did you get those figures? I've been using figures a bit lower than this in my engine and instrument development.

But as long as we are ignoring fuel flow, the effect of mixture on HP is pretty big. All the commercial pilots I've flown with use the fuel flow gauge to set power.

The physics are the same in all of them but maybe I have underestimated the differences between Lycoming and auto engines.

Tracy Crook
Mazda rotary powered RV-4
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com (khorton01(at)rogers.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com (khorton01(at)rogers.com)>

The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73% power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.

If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet:

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401

Kevin Horton



On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:

Quote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.

J Riffel wrote:
Quote:
Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(99hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
..
For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(117hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
..
For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(135hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
..
I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table.
Thanks in Advance.
*

*




--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada










[b]

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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
That is one very good induction system if you can get 23" at 8000 ft.
In my Mooney owners manual, for its IO-360A1A, 2500 and 23" at 7500 is
151 hp, or 75.5%. However, with the IO-360-A3B6 engine it takes 25
squared, supposedly, to get 75% even though the J model with that engine
has a significantly better induction system than my older Mooney.
Obviously the B series engine is only rated for 180hp, so the 75% number
will be 180hp
There is nothing magic about 75% or 70% or any other round number. Many
production aircraft now show 78% for their marketing desired cruise
numbers. The engines are generally rated for continuous use at 100%
power. One just needs to use mixture settings appropriate to the power.
If you choose to operate lean of peak EGT, the fuel flow will entirely
control the power, such that 10gph will be 149 horsepower on the
normally aspirated IO-360A series with standard compression. For the B
series a 75% figure would be 9.0 gph to give 135 hp.

Kevin Horton wrote:
Quote:


The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of
rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into
account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on
an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73%
power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.

If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed
prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the
power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for
the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if
they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet:

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401

Kevin Horton

On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:

>
>
> Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These
> rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on
> installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.
>
> J Riffel wrote:
>> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for
>> the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
>> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
>> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>> (99hp) map map map
>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> ...
>> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>> (117hp) map map map
>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> ...
>> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>> (135hp) map map map
>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> ...
>> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
>> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS.
>> But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes
>> what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built
>> to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a
>> table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an
>> altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they
>> just think I can't read their table.
>> Thanks in Advance.
>> *
>>
>> *

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada


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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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View user's profile Send private message
khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
Those numbers come from a spreadsheet that replicates the Lycoming
power chart. It isn't a perfect match to Lycoming's chart, but it is
fairly close. Just as a cross check, I went into the chart to confirm
what it says. I made that spreadsheet a long time ago, and I now see
that the current Lycoming Operator's Manual has a newer power chart,
which is quite different. My old one is based on Lycoming curve 10350-
A (I have a copy in my filing cabinent). My newer Lycoming manual has
curve 13358.

Looking at 2500 rpm and 23", I get the following powers from (in
order) my old spreadsheet, Lycoming curve 10350-A and Lycoming curve
13358:

sea level:
131 hp (73%), 131 hp (73%), 123 hp (68%)

4000 ft:
139 hp (77%), 139 hp (77%), 134 hp (74%)

8000 ft:
147 hp (82%), 146 hp (81%), 144 hp (80%)

I won't attempt to guess why there is such a large difference between
these two Lycoming power charts, both of which are for the O-360-A and
-C series engines. I don't completely understand why they show such a
large difference in power with altitude, but I suspect it goes beyond
pumping losses. I suspect there is better cylinder scavenging, and
better cylinder filling if there is less exhaust back pressure.

Kevin Horton

On 5-Dec-08, at 09:01 , Tracy Crook wrote:

Quote:
Wow, this looks like about 20 HP in pumping losses at sea level at
23" MP. Sounds like a lot. I'm interested, where did you get
those figures? I've been using figures a bit lower than this in my
engine and instrument development.

But as long as we are ignoring fuel flow, the effect of mixture on
HP is pretty big. All the commercial pilots I've flown with use the
fuel flow gauge to set power.

The physics are the same in all of them but maybe I have
underestimated the differences between Lycoming and auto engines.

Tracy Crook
Mazda rotary powered RV-4
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
wrote:


The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds
of rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into
account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on
an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73%
power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.

If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed
prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy
the power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart
for the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A
engines. if they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power
spreadsheet:

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401

Kevin Horton


On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:



Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These
rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on
installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.

J Riffel wrote:
Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for
the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(99hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...
For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(117hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...
For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
(135hp) map map map
sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
...
I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS.
But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes
what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built
to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a
table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an
altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they
just think I can't read their table.
Thanks in Advance.
*

*

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada


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n142ds(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: IO-360-B Power Chart? Reply with quote
I have a friend looking for a GNC 300 XL wiring manual. Does anyone out there have a PDF? Please send it to me off-line.

Thanks...
David W. Schaefer
RV-6A N142DS "Nerdgasm"
TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS
www.n142ds.com


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