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Thrust line?

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heisan

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: Thrust line?

Hi all,



I will soon be the owner of a partially complete HDS kit, and am busy engine shopping.



I have found an 80hp AeroVee engine that was removed from a HD.  It flew the aircraft reasonably well, but take-off performance was really bad.



I was considering buying the engine and fitting a reduction drive and in flight adjustable Ivo Prop to make the most out of the engine.



Now the question is, how sensitive is the HDS to thrust line?  I can keep the existing engine mount, which will move the thrust line up 130mm (5") from the standard position, or I can invest a bit more in a new engine mount.



I see from the photo's on Zeniths website that there is at least one HD out there with a redrive and a high thrust line, so it can't be all bad?



If anybody knows how good/bad a 130mm higher thrust line will be, I would appreciate any feedback!



Thanks,

Justin

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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Thrust line?

Hi Heisan,

I'd reconsider the 80-hp AeroVee on the HDS.  80-hp is marginal on the 

wing area of the HDS where the HD would only be adequate.

I've a Subaru which delivers 100 hp and an a friends HD with the same 

engine setup could out climb the HDS making my aircraft feel

completely anemic.  I could go faster, but climb with 80-hp in an HDS 

isn't a good thing unless you intend to keep it under 650 lbs empty.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



heisan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi all,



 I will soon be the owner of a partially complete HDS kit, and am busy engine shopping.



 I have found an 80hp AeroVee engine that was removed from a HD.  It flew the aircraft reasonably well, but take-off performance was really bad.



 I was considering buying the engine and fitting a reduction drive and in flight adjustable Ivo Prop to make the most out of the engine.



 Now the question is, how sensitive is the HDS to thrust line?  I can keep the existing engine mount, which will move the thrust line up 130mm (5") from the standard position, or I can invest a bit more in a new engine mount.



 I see from the photo's on Zeniths website that there is at least one HD out there with a redrive and a high thrust line, so it can't be all bad?



 If anybody knows how good/bad a 130mm higher thrust line will be, I would appreciate any feedback!



 Thanks,

 Justin





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 18844#218844

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Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: Thrust line?

Justin, I would not move the thrust line up 5" without changing engine  mount. It will change you aircraft  stability. I do not know where the  CG (that POINT were the aircarft will hang level on a string) is on a HDS.  I think it is just below the thrust line so you would be moving it above the CG.  Jerry of GA 

  

  In a message dated 12/11/2008 3:36:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  justin(at)expertron.co.za writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith601-List message posted by: "heisan"    <justin(at)expertron.co.za>



Hi all,



I will soon be the owner    of a partially complete HDS kit, and am busy engine shopping.



I have    found an 80hp AeroVee engine that was removed from a HD.  It flew the    aircraft reasonably well, but take-off performance was really bad.



I    was considering buying the engine and fitting a reduction drive and in flight    adjustable Ivo Prop to make the most out of the engine.



Now the    question is, how sensitive is the HDS to thrust line?  I can keep the    existing engine mount, which will move the thrust line up 130mm (5") from the    standard position, or I can invest a bit more in a new engine mount.



I    see from the photo's on Zeniths website that there is at least one HD out    there with a redrive and a high thrust line, so it can't be all bad?



If    anybody knows how good/bad a 130mm higher thrust line will be, I would    appreciate any feedback!



Thanks,

Justin





Read this    topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218844#218844

	




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heisan

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Thrust line?

I am a bit worried about that.  My empty weight should be well under 300lbs though.  Also, the VP prop will allow me to climb at max continuous RPM (3400), so it will climb a lot better than a stock 80hp setup.



The problem with the subies is the price.  I have gotten quotes from RAM and Stratus, and both were ridiculous - once shipping and duties are added, they cost substantially more than a brand new 120hp Jab!



The only cost effective engine I can lay my hands on is the VW.

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Thrust line?

 	  heisan wrote: 	
		  



The only cost effective engine I can lay my hands on is the VW. 	




Check out a corvair.  www.flycorvair.com

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_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

heisan

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Thrust line?

 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		   	  heisan wrote: 	
		  



The only cost effective engine I can lay my hands on is the VW. 	




Check out a corvair.  www.flycorvair.com 	




WW hasn't responded to any of my emails, but I am chatting to the guys at Aeromax now.



Spares are a problem though, as no corvair cars were ever sold in South Africa, so all spares need to be imported.  Cost is also very high for what you get (only 20% cheaper than a Jab 3300).



I really want to pust that 120hp Jabiru in, but just can't afford it...

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bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: Thrust line?

You might want to consider obtaining or building a set of HD wings for  

your airplane, that will significantly improve climb rate with  

whatever engine you put in it. You will lose some speed but that will  

just give you more time to enjoy the flight. 



As I recall, the 601HD was originally designed around a 65 HP engine,  

so if you can actually get 80 HP out of a VW conversion and your  

density altitude isn't too bad, you should do OK. Fight the urge to  

add any unnecessary accessories, keep that empty weight down.



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <justin(at)expertron.co.za>



 I am a bit worried about that.  My empty weight should be well under  

 300lbs though.  Also, the VP prop will allow me to climb at max  

 continuous RPM (3400), so it will climb a lot better than a stock  

 80hp setup.




	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

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_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

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