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Master Switch

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hammer408(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: Master Switch

Bob:



I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my

master.  It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams.  I do have a

question:



I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly:



#2 - to battery contactor

#5 - to 5 Amp CB

#1 - to ground

#4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator



Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"...



Thanks



Henry

---

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Master Switch

At 05:20 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<hammer408(at)comcast.net>



Bob:



I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my

master.  It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams.  I do have a

question:



I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly:



#2 - to battery contactor

#5 - to 5 Amp CB

#1 - to ground

#4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator



Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"...


	


   That's what the diagrams show. It should work.

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

hammer408(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: Master Switch

Bob:



I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring.  With the keyway up, it appears

to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be

with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY

ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.



If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to

#6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip

the switch to keyway down?



Sorry for my confusion ?



Henry



---

Master.jpg

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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Master Switch

I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played 

with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the 

toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes 

through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of 

the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except 

possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch.



(Slide switches are different animals, obviously.)



Charlie



Henry Trzeciakowski wrote:

[quote] Bob:



 I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring.  With the keyway up, it appears

 to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be

 with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY

 ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.



 If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to

 #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip

 the switch to keyway down?



 Sorry for my confusion ?



 Henry



 ---

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Master Switch

I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up.  When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward.  I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down.  All worked correctly after that.

 

 Jay in Dallas

 

   

 

   

 

 --

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Master Switch

What is the “keyway” of a switch?  

Carlos  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: terça-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:07

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch  

I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up.  When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward.  I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down.  All worked correctly after that.

 Jay in Dallas  

-----Original Message-----

 From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 3:54 pm

 Subject: Re: Re: Master Switch    

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> 

 I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch. 

 (Slide switches are different animals, obviously.) 

 Charlie 

 Henry Trzeciakowski wrote: 

 > Bob: 

 > 

 > I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears 

 > to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be 

 > with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY 

 > ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR. 

 > 

 > If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to 

 > #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip 

 > the switch to keyway down? 

 > 

 > Sorry for my confusion ? 

 > 

 > Henry 

 > 

 > ---

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Master Switch

There is a groove in the threaded barrel of the switch.  That groove is the keyway.

 

 Jay in Dallas

 

   

 

   

 

 --

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Master Switch

Thanks Jay  

Non-native English speaker problem solved!  

   

Carlos in Portugal  

   

P.S. – I normally install all my DT toggle switches with the keyway facing down  

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: terça-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:34

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch  

  

     

There is a groove in the threaded barrel of the switch.  That groove is the keyway.

 

 Jay in Dallas  

    

   

    

   

  

-----Original Message-----

 From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 4:23 pm

 Subject: RE: Re: Master Switch        

What is the “keyway” of a switch?  

    

   

    

Carlos  

    

   

    

   

          

    

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com ([email]owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com?[/email])] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com (jaybannist(at)cs.com)

 Sent: terça-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:07

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch  

  

    

   

      

I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up.  When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward.  I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down.  All worked correctly after that.

 

 Jay in Dallas  

  

      

   

  

      

   

  

    

--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: Master Switch

At 04:06 PM 12/16/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up.  When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward.  I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down.  All worked correctly after that.



 Jay in Dallas 	


     I'm not aware of any industry-wide conventions for keyway

     orientation on switches. The only time it makes a difference

     is when you have special features in a switch that are

     orientation dependent. For example, and on-off-(on) switch

     is spring-loaded from one end of travel to center. If you

     want the spring loaded-position to be lower-most in the

     installation, then that drives how the switch is installed

     irrespective of keyway orientation. 



     Similarly, if you have a switch with terminal numbers molded

     into the rear housing, then wiring in accordance with a diagram

     that cites terminal numbers will work correctly only if

     keyway orientation for that particular switch is observed.



     I have switches in my junkbox with no keyway.



     And of course, this would include rocker switches. These

     can generally be mounted either orientation but the

     switch may not function as anticipated if there are

     non-symmetrical features . . . typically terminal

     numbering or special tabs like . . . 



  http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Split_Rocker_Rear.jpg

 

 

     The keyway is added to many switches to facilitate robust

     mounting. 



  http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Miniature_Toggle_w-Full_Size_Handle.jpg 



     The keyway is engaged by the often supplied tab-washer

     to prevent the switch body from rotating on the mounting

     due to torque applied by wires to the back or operator

     from the front.



     



  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net) > 

  

 I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. 	


   Yes. Here's a couple of shots that illustrate Charlie's

   explanation.



  http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Carling_Cutaway.jpg



   http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Switch_with_Mold-Captured_Terminals.jpg

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch. 	


  http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/On-Off_Plate.jpg



 

 Henry Trzeciakowski wrote: 

 > Bob: 

 > 

 > I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears 

 > to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be 

 > with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY 

 > ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR. 

 > 

 > If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to 

 > #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip 

 > the switch to keyway down? 

 > 

 > Sorry for my confusion ? 



    You originally cited a 2TL series switch which

    I presume is a Honeywell-Microswitch product. I've

    illustrated the Miocroswitch convention for terminal

    numbering at . . .



  http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Progressive-Xfr_Split-Rocker_Switches.pdf

 

     Now, as it turns out, the folks at Carling seem to

     have adopted the Honeywell-Microswitch convention

     for terminal numbers a couple of years ago. Bottom

     line is that you MIGHT need to deduce how YOUR

     particular switch functions. Quite often, you can

     glean operational information from the manufacturer's

     catalogs. I have a sampling of such documents on

     the website at . . .



  http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data.html



     So for individual who read this posting now or in

     the future, be aware that not all switches with

     interchangeable functionality are labeled or keyed

     the same way. So if the thing doesn't work the way

     you want it to, the simplest solution is to get out

     the ohmmeter and figure it out.



     Bob . . .



 



     [quote][b]

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: Master Switch

The  reason for the keyway being up is environmental.  When the keyway is up,  the pins are above the key channel, so when dirt, grime and moisture gets into  the key slot, it lays in the channel instead of contaminating the pin which have  close clearances.  If the pins were on the bottom, all the crud  getting into the key slot would fall into the pins and cause fouling  and poorly working pins.

  

 Chuck Jensen  

 

  [quote]   --

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Master Switch

At 08:16 AM 12/17/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   The reason for the keyway being up is environmental.  When the keyway is up, the pins are above the key channel, so when dirt, grime and moisture gets into the key slot, it lays in the channel instead of contaminating the pin which have close clearances.  If the pins were on the bottom, all the crud getting into the key slot would fall into the pins and cause fouling and poorly working pins.

  

 Chuck Jensen 	


   I think you're referring to the cylinders in locks. We're

   discussing the keyway on the mounting bushing of a toggle

   switch . . .



  http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Miniature_Toggle_w-Full_Size_Handle.jpg

 

 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------)    [quote][b]

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Master Switch

I have always been a proponent of the keyway-down school of thought. The reason being, that a small splash of water or rain would stay in the keyway, or drain inward perhaps, if the keyway were facing up. (I also presume toggle up is ON and down is OFF.) There must be a patent on the keyway in the late 1800's or some mil-spec but I can't find it.



NKK sells little ON/OFF switch plates for use with keyed bushings and they seem to agree with my described system. I have seen many of these little plates and they mostly seem to agree. But I am sure you can get the opposite kind, too.



On a related subject. The little "face" on US 120 VAC outlets: By NEC code, the little "face" is oriented so that U-ground connection is the last to exit the socket when a power cord is pulled out of it. This is judged by height usually (but not always). The high sockets have the U-ground "nose" down whilst low mounted sockets have the U-ground "nose" up.

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

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