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Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

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nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Robert,

 I buit my 701 with a Harbor Freight pneumatic gun and had no problem throughout the build and it still works like new. I usually do not buy and use " Chinese" tools but enough guys on the list couldn't say enough good things about them. I would reccomend it. 

 

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX

   	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  When I first started looking for a rivet puller, I shied away from the gun that 

was being offered by Zenith because I had heard from builders on this List, that 

there was many instances of cracking in the casings.  As a replacement I decided 

to go with a gun that was being offered by ACS ( see pic below ) however it is 

starting to look like this was not my best decision 	
	


      [b]

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Bob

I use 4 or 5 drops of oil in mine each new DAY I use it.  If it is the

same day i.e. morning then evening, I don't add oil.



I have Zenith's but all of my pneumatic tools are treated the same way



Even with the small amount I use, my hand does get a little oily, but

the puller works fine.



I had one event where it would pull once then hang up half way



I added a drop around the side of the chuck and no more problems.



As long as it gets me through this project I am satisfied.  I am not

looking for a long term tool here.



Randall J Hebert

--

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

ALSO, Bob, You may know this but if you don't, Be sure you use pneumatic

tool oil.



Randall J Hebert

Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc

Consulting Engineers

Ph 337-261-1976  Fx 337-261-1977

--

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Bob, I purchased my rivet puller at Oshkosh a few years ago but cannot remember which retailer I bought it from.  The brand name is Taylor.  I have been completely satisfied with its function.  No broken cases, no massive rebound denting the skin or any of the other common complaints.  I have never had to mess with oil either.  Took it out of the box, modified the nose piece, and started pulling rivets.  That was 85% of a 701 project ago and it is still working like new.  I think I spent about $80-$90.00 on it and that would be about four years ago.



Hope this is of some help



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I am basically a neat person, and I can't live with the

 constant spewing of oil out the front, or the back stem

 catcher, and ending up on my freshly made parts, or my work

 table for that matter.  I am now in the process of trying to

 look for a replacement, but all the suppliers seem to have

 the same low cost gun.  The list of resellers I checked with

 is rather extensive and includes, but is not limited to, The

 Yard, ATS, Browns, Cleavland, US Tools, all registered

 trademarks etc, and a few more I will not mention.

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

I just used that green one from Zenith, with their machined tip on it, of 

course.  Got it second hand when I started the 701, it having built a 601 

previously. I did the 701 and several other projects without ever missing a 

beat.   In fact, I'd forget to squirt oil in it sometimes for two or three 

months at a time even with hard use, and even left it out in the rain a few 

times and drove over it with my pickup once!  Dropped it on the concrete 

countless times.  So I've used it and abused it.  Like the old Timex 

commercial "It takes a licking and keeps on kickin!"



---

jgswartout(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Bob, my $36.99 Central Pneumatic rivet puller from Harbor Freight (Item # 93458-8JSH) worked fine right out of the box and has been quite trouble-free for 11 years and thousands of rivets (only a few dozen  rivets left to pull on my 801).  I did wear out the original pair of jaws about half way thru the project, and bought replacements from Harbor Freight.  Also, since most of the rivets were dipped in epoxy primer, from time to time the jaw teeth would get gummed up with paint, and I would have to clean them up with a (non-toxic) paint stripper and a wire brush.  After about 8 years I was frequently having to pull the trigger twice for A5 rivets.  I adjusted the oil for the first time, and got some improvement, but it may be that it's time to buy a new one.  But, I won't, because I'm almost done.  I think I got good value with that puller.  

   

 John

 On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:13 AM, stepinwolf <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca (robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "stepinwolf" <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca (robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca)>

 

When I first started looking for a rivet puller, I shied away from the gun that was being offered by Zenith because I had heard from builders on this List, that there was many instances of cracking in the casings.  As a replacement I decided to go with a gun that was being offered by ACS ( see pic below ) however it is starting to look like this was not my best decision.

 

I had difficulty with the setup instructions ( Chinese instructions ) and for the life of me I still have not been able to get the oil level correct.  The instructions state that the unit should be filled with oil up to the top of the frame, without showing where exactly what they consider as being the top or the exact filling level is.

 

My second mistake was purchasing two guns so as not to have to continually swap out the two tips.  As it stands, when I do get one of the (at)#$%&* things to work, it won't pull more then a dozen or so rivets, before me being obliged to open up the air cylinder and start fidgeting with the oil level again.

 

I am basically a neat person, and I can't live with the constant spewing of oil out the front, or the back stem catcher, and ending up on my freshly made parts, or my work table for that matter.  I am now in the process of trying to look for a replacement, but all the suppliers seem to have the same low cost gun.  The list of resellers I checked with is rather extensive and includes, but is not limited to, The Yard, ATS, Browns, Cleavland, US Tools, all registered trademarks etc, and a few more I will not mention.

 

My question to the List is this, is the rivet gun being sold by all of these suppliers the same gun.  I have looked as best as I can, and every last one is showing what looks to be the exact same unit on their web-page, with the only difference being the color or the pricing.  The cases are identical, the same tips, the same nose pieces, hell they even the same triggering mechanism, and the only difference so far is prices, that are anywhere between 40$, to a 140$.

 

For those of you who have used any of the above guns, are you aware of any difference in quality of these guns, or is it a " find the peanut under the shell " type of situation for me to get a proper replacement that will work,

 

Thank's to all of you who will take the time to respond to my concerns.

Bob, the 701 & 750 Scratch

Three Rivers , Quebec.

7-7143 & 7-75???



--------

Live each day, as if it was your last

 



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  [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Hi Bob,

I only had to pull a couple dozen rivets with one of those air powered 

things to realize the benefit of pulling the things by hand.

A5s are harder, but still, the hand pulled rivets turn out consistently 

better. You'll still end up wearing out at least two guns

over the life of a full build.  I found the Stanley product with the 

swivel head to be a "best product" for my 601HDS plans built.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



stepinwolf wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 When I first started looking for a rivet puller, I shied away from the gun that was being offered by Zenith because I had heard from builders on this List, that there was many instances of cracking in the casings.  As a replacement I decided to go with a gun that was being offered by ACS ( see pic below ) however it is starting to look like this was not my best decision. 



 For those of you who have used any of the above guns, are you aware of any difference in quality of these guns, or is it a " find the peanut under the shell " type of situation for me to get a proper replacement that will work, 



 Thank's to all of you who will take the time to respond to my concerns.

 Bob, the 701 & 750 Scratch

 Three Rivers , Quebec.

 7-7143 & 7-75???



 --------

 Live each day, as if it was your last

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Hi Fellows, I had not expected so much feedback, nor so soon, but I am glad to hear of all your experiences.



I must first apologize for mis-speaking earlier when I stated that the gun was purchased from ACS.  I went through all my invoices, and found the Harbor Freight invoice ID'ing the gun. It is the Central Pneumatic model # 93458, and the exact same model however that ACS is offering.



As for the oil management, I have a very complete, ( and very expensive I must ad )  set of more then a half dozen " Chicago Pacific ) air tools, and like most of you responders, and few drops in the air intake, is more then enough to keep them in excellent shape.



However I had never used any rivet gun before, and followed the instructions that were given in the manual to the best of my knowledge, and hence the filling of the tool.  Check the pic of the instructions in the user manual below.



This evening I will pour out any remaining oil, and give both of them another try. 



Bob the 701 & 750 Scratch



Terry, when I fill the piston stem opening to the top, no sooner that I re-insert the diaphragm into the gun, the oil comes squirting out the air exhaust hole in the front ( check rag ) of the canister or air cylinder.., and also out the rear into the stem holder.



I will also give this another try.

oil-level.JPG

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Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Bob



I have the cheap HF riveter, and, for me, the instructions were not very 

helpful. When I got it, I followed the instructions (at least I thought I 

followed the instructions) to prime the riveter. But I did not understand 

then what they meant by the top of the frame, and what I actually did was 

lose the oil from the small diameter central cylinder that goes up into the 

handle of the riveter, and add oil to the large diameter pneumatic cylinder.



I used the gun for at least a year like that, usually needing 2 to 4 

trigger pulls to set a rivet (more for the A5's) Finally I disassembled the 

thing and realized how it was designed to work. The oil in the small 

central cylinder is the hydraulic fluid for the hydraulic part of the 

"pneumatic-hydraulic" tool. That small cylinder must be filled with oil to 

its top (assuming you are holding the riveter upside down). The large 

(pneumatic) cylinder needs only a few drops of oil each day, much like you 

must put a small amount of oil inside the cylinder of a bicycle tire pump 

to seal the piston. Now, properly primed with oil, the riveter work fine. 

One pull, one rivet set (and a bit of oil sprayed). I usually hold a 

shop-grade paper towel when riveting to catch most of the oil. It's a good 

tool. But the instructions were not very helpful.



If the oil spray is a problem for you, then you might be happier with some 

other tool. And, yes, the rivet mandrel catcher only works well for me when 

the riveter is used in the (rare) upright orientation. But the riveter 

works well when it is primed correctly. And it will pull the AS5 rivets 

without a problem.



The only other riveter I have used is a hand tool, so I cannot comment on 

any other pneumatic riveters.



Terry





At 08:13 AM 1/12/2009 -0800, stepinwolf wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  When I first started looking for a rivet puller, I shied away from the gun 

that was being offered by Zenith because I had heard from builders on this 

List, that there was many instances of cracking in the casings.  As a 

replacement I decided to go with a gun that was being offered by ACS ( see 

pic below ) however it is starting to look like this was not my best decision.



I had difficulty with the setup instructions ( Chinese instructions ) and 

for the life of me I still have not been able to get the oil level 

correct.  The instructions state that the unit should be filled with oil 

up to the top of the frame, without showing where exactly what they 

consider as being the top or the exact filling level is.



My second mistake was purchasing two guns so as not to have to continually 

swap out the two tips.  As it stands, when I do get one of the (at)#$%&* 

things to work, it won't pull more then a dozen or so rivets, before me 

being obliged to open up the air cylinder and start fidgeting with the oil 

level again.



I am basically a neat person, and I can't live with the constant spewing 

of oil out the front, or the back stem catcher, and ending up on my 

freshly made parts, or my work table for that matter.  I am now in the 

process of trying to look for a replacement, but all the suppliers seem to 

have the same low cost gun.  The list of resellers I checked with is 

rather extensive and includes, but is not limited to, The Yard, ATS, 

Browns, Cleavland, US Tools, all registered trademarks etc, and a few more 

I will not mention.



My question to the List is this, is the rivet gun being sold by all of 

these suppliers the same gun.  I have looked as best as I can, and every 

last one is showing what looks to be the exact same unit on their 

web-page, with the only difference being the color or the pricing.  The 

cases are identical, the same tips, the same nose pieces, hell they even 

the same triggering mechanism, and the only difference so far is prices, 

that are anywhere between 40$, to a 140$.



For those of you who have used any of the above guns, are you aware of any 

difference in quality of these guns, or is it a " find the peanut under 

the shell " type of situation for me to get a proper replacement that will 

work,



Thank's to all of you who will take the time to respond to my concerns.

Bob, the 701 & 750 Scratch

Three Rivers , Quebec.


	




Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons 

are done; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

I'm like Larry I had 3 air powered rivet guns and used the hand rivet guns for 95% of the rivets because you can control how they come out better. Just my .02 worth. 

David Coberly 

 

  [quote][b]

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Hello All,

 

If anyone is using (or going to use) oil inthe riveter,  use red automatic transmission fluid,  if tou use motor oil, the riveter has rubber parts and o rings inside that will be damaged,  them you will have to buy a new one...   We use HF riveters daily for more than 10 years in our factory.   

The HF riveter has some oil inside, only when disasemble... Send me direct mail to explain how to assemble...

 

No other mantaince, other than cleaning the puller jaws needed,  The drop of red oil is not mandatory just a couple of drops once or twice ayear

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

All the air tools I have I just put a drop or two  of oil in the intake whenever I think of it, which is not too often.  So  far I've never had any air tool fail.  Some of your pullers sound like a  different kind than the green one I have, which I was told saw supplied by  ZAC.  It's out in the hangar and there's 1/3 mile of 3 foot deep snow  and it's -47F windchill out there right now, so I don't feel like snaping on  snowshoes to make the trek! Hah!  

 I also have a couple of different hand  pullers for awkward places.  

 Wish it would warm up! The last day I  test flew my CH-701 at 31 hours, it was +60F, and the next day it blizzarded and  tem drop to below zero where it has hovered ever since.  And the record  snows.....Wish I was in Mexico like Gary!

 [quote]   ---

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

The pneumatic rivet gun I have is the P-RIV sold by  Zenith.   It must be different from the air/hydraulic ones from Harbor  Freight and others.   As I bought it used I didn't have instructions  for it, so just plugged it into the air line and went with it.  Worked  fine despite my abuse,   Thinking about it, I don't think I  put a squirt of pneumatic tool air in it more than a half dozen times in a  couple years of building plus some other projects.  Only took off the head  to change the tip the first time.  Jaws seem fine now.I must have lucked  out as I have maybe 10 - 12 thousand rivets on it by now myself, not counting  the previous owners 601.

    I must have got pretty lucky with mine  as others seem to not like them and have had poor service with  them.

 Talking about riveting, if no one has seen it,  there is a neat video on the EAA website about pulling rivets in hard to get at  places.  Some great hints 

 Bob N701ND

 [quote]   ---

Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

When I started building my CH701 about a year ago, I did some searching in

the archives and found a bunch of messages about the Harbor Freight (HF)

puller spewing oil.  When I bought my HF gun I thought I followed the

directions.  It spewed oil as well.  My HF lasted a few hundred rivets

before I finally started having troubles.  I eventually gave up and threw it

away in disgust.  I did both wings with the hand puller (I did one wing in

one day).



John Marzulli brought his ZAC puller by so we could work on his slats.  It

worked really well so I ordered a new one from ZAC.  The one I got looked a

lot like the HF version and different than John's.  The directions that came

with it were a lot clearer and it was evident that just a little oil should

be placed in the hole in the bottom of the cylinder.  On the HF puller, I

was filling the bottom of the cylinder with a few ounces of oil incorrectly.



Although my new ZAC puller looks a lot like the HF version, the ZAC version

has a lot better construction.  I've made my slats and flaperons with it so

far without problems.



I gouged out my original puller head by mounting a coned shaped stone with

an arbor in my drill press.  Then I just ground away the tip until it looked

like the ones on the ZAC website.  Now that I have the official ZAC modified

heads, I can see that I was pretty close.



You gat get oil for air tools at Home Depot.



Curt

Plans building CH701.

lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Doug, I'm glad to see you say you don't mess with oil either, neither do 

I.  Maybe at the most, two drops every month or two.  That little deal 

that says "oil daily" is for someone using it all day every day in a 

dusty place.  If you keep adding oil all it does it gum it up.  If ya'll 

feel that you must oil daily, use drops not squirts.  I've built almost 

two 701s on two or four drops of oil in one gun.  I use a Campbell 

Hausfield, may have spelled it wrong.  When and if I have a problem with 

an air tool, I run WD40 through it and then about two drops of oil, it 

generally fixes it every time.  And don't everybody start arguing with 

me, it worked for me for years. Larry, N1345L

MacDonald Doug wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Bob, I purchased my rivet puller at Oshkosh a few years ago but cannot remember which retailer I bought it from.  The brand name is Taylor.  I have been completely satisfied with its function.  No broken cases, no massive rebound denting the skin or any of the other common complaints.  I have never had to mess with oil either.  Took it out of the box, modified the nose piece, and started pulling rivets.  That was 85% of a 701 project ago and it is still working like new.  I think I spent about $80-$90.00 on it and that would be about four years ago.

 Hope this is of some help

 Doug MacDonald

 CH-701 scratch Builder

 NW Ontario, Canada

> I am basically a neat person, and I can't live with the

> constant spewing of oil out the front, or the back stem

> catcher, and ending up on my freshly made parts, or my work

> table for that matter.  I am now in the process of trying to

> look for a replacement, but all the suppliers seem to have

> the same low cost gun.  The list of resellers I checked with

> is rather extensive and includes, but is not limited to, The

> Yard, ATS, Browns, Cleavland, US Tools, all registered

> trademarks etc, and a few more I will not mention.  

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

I sure won't argue with you Larry.  It works for me!  I may have been lucky 

but so far I've never had any problems with an air tool doing exactly as you 

say.  Maybe even oiling them less than you do.

---

SafeAirOne

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Manchester, NH

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

I don't think it was mentioned here, but there's a rivet puller page on the zenair builder site that addresses having to make 2 pulls to drive the rivet.  See page 2 at: http://www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/pneu-riveter.pdf



Do Not Archive



--Mark

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

A big thank you to all who responded to my call for help. 



Yesterday evening I was able to find, and correct the problem with my rivet gun.  As was mentioned in a previous response, the defect was with the large O-ring on the piston at the top of the handle.  it has an O-ring at the rear to seal the oil, and both guns had O-rings that were dried out and hardened.



This is why the gun was quitting after a dozen or so rivets, because the oil was leaking pass the O-ring into the stem catcher.  Now it is working great, with no oil leaks.



There was however one casualty in all this and that is my second gun.  While I was rebuilding the first one on the bench I casually pulled the trigger to check how far back the piston was pulling, and when it evacuated the air from the lower canister, it blow the spring from my second gun off the bench, and was never to be seen again.



Bob the 701 & 750 scratch

Three Rivers, Quebec

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bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: Need help & consuling on Rivet puller

Yes, now that I think of it, I did tighten those jam nuts twice, the second 

and last time using lock tite on the threads. No problem since.

One other thing is until I learned to be sure the shaft of the previous 

rivet was out of the gun, sometimes it would not close and grab  the stem 

until I made sure the stem of the previous rivet was out, either through the 

backside or head.

---

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