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Kevin.Raymond(at)qg.com
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 Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
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My first flight with my Kolb Slingshot is coming this summer. I have an HKS700E engine (4 stroke, 60 hp). I would like to make sure my CQ is safe for the first flight. I know what my plans say is the acceptable range (20 - 37% mean aerodynamic chord), and I also just attended the EAA's workshop for safely testing flying your project, and I know what they define as an acceptable range (18 - 34% Mean aerodynamic chord). I would like to get actual data points of where people safely fly their Kolb aircraft. In particular I would like to get Kolb aircraft type, your actual flying CG location in inches from the leading edge of the wing, and the distance from your wing leading edge to the trailing edge of your ailerons in inches. From these numbers I will be able to get a really good idea of where the CQ is in terms of % of Mean Aerodynamic chord, and this will make the data from the other Kolb types meaningful. Also, if you did a careful flight test program in your Kolb with different CQ's, I would like to hear what you thought the acceptable range was for your Kolb, and which location you liked best. My aircraft is currently set up to be near the back end of the EAA general aircraft range, and I have heard a CQ that is pretty aft in the range is fairly typical for Kolb's. I am well aware the aft limit is death if you exceed it, and this is why I want to know the aft limit you thought was safe. Thanks so much for your input.
Kevin Raymond
kevin.raymond(at)qg.com
A KOLB fan. [quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
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Hi,
You apparently aren't getting too many responses to your question. I imagine that can be attributed to caution rather than non interest. I knew that Jerry had put a HKS on a Slingshot, but I never knew whose it was. I am surprised that you haven't flown it yet. I would like to get a bit more background on the installation and the plane. Have you flown the airplane with any other engine on the plane?
I have a Firestar II that has had a 447- a 503 and now a HKS. Quite frankly I can find no real down side to the engine as far as the flying goes. Other than I am having a bit more CHT than I am currently comfortable with. I have a very (at least to my mind) heavy Firestar. I am not real sure if my figures are correct on the weight, but the W&B has actually moved forward with the addition of the HKS. With the 503 on it the W&B was pretty far to the rear. As it sits now I am showing the most forward CG would be 22 percent or 14.14 inches and the most aft 23.6 percent or 15.1 inches of wing chord. I have flown mine, and there is no change in the handling of the plane from then to now.
I spoke to a friend of mine about the difference in W&B with the two engines, and he mentions that the HKS even though it weighs about 30 lbs more that a 503, the weight is more towards the CG than it is with the 503. For instance the oil tank is just behind the rear seat, both pistons are side by side and also a bit more forward than on a 503 the muffler is ahead of the CG as well as the oil cooler. So keeping that in mind, even though you are adding more weight, it is not necessarily aft of the CG, so you may well be a lot more forward than you would think.
Larry C, Oregon
[quote][b]
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grantr
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
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What is CQ?
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
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In Charge of Quarters (sorry, I couldn't resist)
BB
On 19, Jan 2009, at 10:05 PM, grantr wrote:
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:35 am Post subject: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
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At 01:09 PM 1/19/2009, Raymond, Kevin wrote:
| Quote: | | ...I know what my plans say is the acceptable range (20 - 37% mean aerodynamic chord), and I also just attended the EAA's workshop for safely testing flying your project, and I know what they define as an acceptable range (18 - 34% Mean aerodynamic chord)....My aircraft is currently set up to be near the back end of the EAA general aircraft range, and I have heard a CQ that is pretty aft in the range is fairly typical for Kolb's. I am well aware the aft limit is death if you exceed it... |
The 18-34% you got from the EAA is a general rule of thumb; in all cases you should use what the manufacturer
(Kolb) recommends.
When a manufacturer publishes CG limits, there may or may not be a safety factor in there. If you go beyond that limit you're now a test pilot; you might be OK but you might have an uncontrollable airpoane.
-Dana
--
People will accept your ideas much more readily if you tell them that Benjamin Franklin said it first. [quote][b]
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robcannon
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
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I don't get it - you had Gerry Olenik install the hks on a slingshot and you're asking us about safe cg limits. I'm sure if Gerry did the install it was done right. What does he have to say about the cg limits?
I installed the hks in my twinstar and was faced with the same questions. In all my research it pretty much boiled down to this. Kolb used to say 20 - 40 percent. They got a bit more conservative and changed the rear limit abit (37 ?) Do a archive search here and read everything you can. Some folks seem to get away with waaaaay aft limits, with no trouble. Bear in mind that these numbers will be set conservative. I was doing my install at the same time as gerry was doing a slinshot (yours?) install, and I spoke with him extensively about these issues. CG position is important to a newer pilot on a new craft. If you read test flight stuff it is suggested that cg is foreward. For my test flying I added a brs foreward (temporarily) to bring the cg central.
So........your slingshot solo is probably near the aft limit. (check it) If so, for the first few flights strap on a few pounds of whatever and go fly!
cheers, Rob
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Jimmy Young
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
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Kevin,
Is your plane N# 863GB, engine installed by Jerry at Greensky?
If so, I watched Jerry fly it around the pattern in Florida about a
year ago, on a day with close to 20 mph surface winds. Observing from
the ground, it looked like it was flying fine and handling well. If
it's not this one, nevermind. If it is, give him a call to discuss;
he's a really nice guy and I'm sure he would help answer your questions.
Jimmy Young
Houston
FS II
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Jimmy Young
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Kolb FS II/HKS 700 |
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