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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Strobe Lights |
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Good Evening Kelly,
You made me look in the FARs! <G>
If I am correct and the change required that the lights be operated continuously, there would be no need to change or modify the AD.
All it says in Part 91.209 is that we must have lighted position lights and a lighted anti-collision light. The anti-collision light may be switched off if the PIC feels it is best to do so.
My recollection is that there was a communication of some sort telling us to not use the flashing nav lights anymore, but I do NOT recall what form that notice took. I also believe that there was language in the CARs that did allow the flashing lights. I do not recall which CAR it was, but it was certainly in part 20, 43, or 60.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I do not believe so.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/28/2009 9:42:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, kellym(at)aviating.com writes:
| Quote: | I don't know Bob. I had a Cessna 170B for years that came with a nav
light flasher, which had an AD on it. Compliance was to either remove
the flasher, or install a two position switch to allow full on or
flashing. Don't believe the AD ever changed.
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: Strobe Lights |
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And I was hoping your memory was better than mine. 
Unfortunately, I didn't get involved with aviation until the early 70s,
so have no info prior to that. Of course that was prior to having any
night flying requirement for a private license, prior to tailwheel and
HP endorsements being required, back when your airline FO might only
have a commercial multi ticket, without instrument, ATP or type rating.
Those were the days.
Do remember a number of on airport FSS that I visited that were closed
as soon as AWOS came along. Haven't seen a machine yet that can figure
cloud cover and visibility as well as a trained human with appropriate
instruments.
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Good Evening Kelly,
You made me look in the FARs! <G>
If I am correct and the change required that the lights be operated
continuously, there would be no need to change or modify the AD.
All it says in Part 91.209 is that we must have lighted position
lights and a lighted anti-collision light. The anti-collision light
may be switched off if the PIC feels it is best to do so.
My recollection is that there was a communication of some sort telling
us to not use the flashing nav lights anymore, but I do NOT recall
what form that notice took. I also believe that there was language in
the CARs that did allow the flashing lights. I do not recall which CAR
it was, but it was certainly in part 20, 43, or 60.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I do not believe so.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/28/2009 9:42:01 P.M. Central Standard Time,
kellym(at)aviating.com writes:
I don't know Bob. I had a Cessna 170B for years that came with a nav
light flasher, which had an AD on it. Compliance was to either remove
the flasher, or install a two position switch to allow full on or
flashing. Don't believe the AD ever changed.
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:56 am Post subject: Strobe Lights |
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Hi All-
Many good points on lights and threat detection. I'd like to add that,
like many on this list, I've had a lot of opportunity to look for traffic
at night. The number of times I've seen strobes and the distance at which
I've seen I've seen strobes is many times that of seeing a red beacon. How
many times have we looked at a night sky and seen an airliner's strobes and
never seen the beacon?
Also, as Matt observed, motion is a key element of visual perception,
especially with faint light. I suspect "change in the light' is the real
issue, and is why wig wags are so attractive to the eye. Strobes,
obviously, have that characteristic. They certainly can have the
shortcomings that were pointed out, namely low duty cycle, no inherent
direction vector, and potential confusion with ground based strobes. To
address all those issues, Whelen makes strobes called "Comet Flash" that
will fire 4 times, IIRC, in very rapid succession. This quadruples the
duty cycle and creates a visual 'trail' for the eye. These factors
identify the lights as being airborne, and are both attention getting and
impart a direction vector to the light. These strobes can be configured to
fire in opposition, as with a wig-wag system, which I believe further
doubles the duty cycle of the strobes.
At the time I was shopping for external lighting, the Whelens were by far
and away the brightest strobes on the market, as well as the most
expensive. As much as I like to get the best bang for my limited bucks, I
consider hairy-chested anti-collision strobe lights a high priority. It's
a long and unique story, but my pucker factor would have been a whole lot
lower one hazy afternoon had the other plane had strobes on...
The particular Whelen's I bought have strobe, white, and red or green
lights all in one wing tip unit. This way, I have 2 white tail lights and
no tail mounted lights at all. None of the cost, installation, maint, or
drag associated with the beacon and discrete tail lights. The only down
side I can think of is that when viewed from behind, someone might mistake
my little, slow aircraft for a large aircraft that is five or six times
farther away and moving faster.
As an aside, Beech used to supply at least their airliners with white
anti-collision beacons. They were certainly more effective / obnoxious
than red beacons while on the ground, but I really don't know if they were
any more effective aloft. Also, there were several TC'd aircraft in my
deep dark past that had strobes in lieu of a beacon. Mostly Grumman, but
there may have been a Cessna or piper in there as well.
YMMV, FWIW, etc.
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
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echristley(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: Strobe Lights |
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Matt Prather wrote:
| Quote: | Where I'm going with is that when I go shopping for anti-collision
lighting, I won't be looking at strobes. Instead I'll want some system
that might look to the eye more like the old incandescent lights, except
brighter, cooler running, and more reliable. LED's are the obvious source
of illumination, especially today with their remarkable efficiency.
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Matt, you make a good case, but I think the better option is to go with
both. The strobe is to draw the eye of the other pilot to your general
direction. The wig-wag is to get him (or her) to hone in on your exact
position. I don't always necessarily need to know exactly where
something is at. "A tower is to the right, hang a little to the left"
is usually more precision than necessary, and I wouldn't use 'precision
guidance' around phrases like "Traffic at 2 o'clock". The strobe is
just a heads up that there is something in that general direction, and I
think a quick flash does that better than a steady burning light.
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