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Bouncing Mono Classic

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frank(at)kusserow-online.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

Dear all,

 I am slowly gaining experience with my monowheel,  but today I did a few patterns on a concrete runway (before I  mainly used grass strips as a beginning) and experienced hefty "bouncings" on  landing, causing me to go around twice-although touchdown was quite smooth it  threw me back up in the air like a rubber ball (I tried touchdown  speeds between 45 and 60 kts with steep and shallow approaches, with and  without flaring). The mono is one of the first  from 1996-1998 with the red rubberblock as a shock absorber- since the a/c has  now around 600 hrs/700 landings, could it be the case that it needs to be  replaced? Or could it be something else? I know that the mono tends to bounce if  not landed "on the point", but I never experienced it in my past 25  landings so badly. Did anyone have a similar experience? I use the large 8.00  tire on it.

  

 Thank you for your help

  

 Frank Kusserow

 Germany

D-EJWD/ Europa Mono Classic/912UL/Warp  Drive

   [quote][b]

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

Hi Frank



I am not too familiar with Classic monowheels, but think I remember reading that early Classics did not have dampers.



Do you have two hydraulic dampers installed?



I am pretty sure there was a service bulletin or modification to add.



If Europa does not still list, have a look (at) EuropaOwners, I think they have older information.



I am not sure if Red shock absorbers have holes for dampers. I have a XS monowheel and it has a black shock absorber with holes for dampers.



If you don't have dampers, probably a good idea to install. Also look at old service info, there was a mod to early undercarriage mounting frames that adds strengthening to prevent overcentre stress failure. 



Ron Parigoris

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frank,

  

 Congratulations on your starting on grass.  Smart move.

  

 I'll research the block with the company.  Do you have the dual shock  absorbers installed?  Refer to the new manual Chapter 29M

 What is your main tire pressure?  Many prefer to run a low tire  pressure to preclude bounce.  If you've got it firm, you're landing on a  beach ball.  Sounds like you've got the pressure up.  

  

 We inflated the only mono I have been in at 18 pounds on a 7 inch tire  and found it more comfortable with the pressure at 14-15 psi.  The owner  prefers it at this pressure.  The plane squats in on landing.

  

 Love to hear other comments from you experience mono pilots on tire  pressure and concrete runways to get a feel for what works for each of  you.

  

 Bud Yerly

 Custom Flight Creations

 Europa Dealer USA.

 [quote]   ---

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

If you run the tyre at low pressure check that the brake caliper doesn’t rub against the tyre. This is particularly a problem if the caliper is in the original low position. Even when it is visually clear, compression on landing and tight turns whilst taxying can cause the caliper to rub against the sidewall. Look for a circular mark on the sidewall during walkrounds. Rotating the caliper rearwards to be at least the in line with the trailing arm is a good idea.   

   

Nigel Charles  

   

--

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

Hi Bud,

  

 I have an Air Trac 8:00 tyre inflated to 30 PSI, in order to favor  prop clearance. I have tested anything from the factory recommanded 18 PSI to 35  PSI and have not found any significant effect on bouncing, regardless of runway  surface. 

 After 600 hours flying the monowheel, I bounce  it from time to time and manage to grease it sometimes. Other landings  are reasonably good.  

  

 Regards

 Remi Guerner

 F-PGKL mono XS

  

  

  

  

  

 >>>>>>>>>>  Love to hear other comments from you experience mono pilots on tire  

pressure and concrete runways to get a feel for what works for each of  

you. Bud  Yerly<<<<<<<<<<<



    [quote][b]

acrojim7534(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

If "landing on the point" means that the main wheel is touching first on the runway, that is most of your problem.

  

 The monowheel tire is located ahead of the center of gravity and as soon as the tire touches the runway the tail will go down until the tailwheel reaches the runway. This results in the plane being launched back into the air. Depending on speed at touchdown this will result in small or high bounces.  "The monowheel can not be wheel landed" such as a regular tailgragger. The tail wheel must touch down just before, or as soon as the main wheel.

  

 To get the correct picture of the planes attitude at landing, When you taxi out for takeoff, and when you get the plane lined up and ready to come up on power, pause for a minute, look at the far end of the runway over the cowl. this will be your sight picture for the landing touchdown..

  

 Jim Brown

 Monowheel XS



--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Frank Kusserow <frank(at)kusserow-online.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Frank Kusserow <frank(at)kusserow-online.com>

Subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 9:04 PM



      Dear all,

 I am slowly gaining experience with my monowheel, but today I did a few patterns on a concrete runway (before I mainly used grass strips as a beginning) and experienced hefty "bouncings" on landing, causing me to go around twice-although touchdown was quite smooth it threw me back up in the air like a rubber ball (I tried touchdown speeds between 45 and 60 kts with steep and shallow approaches, with and without flaring). The mono is one of the first from 1996-1998 with the red rubberblock as a shock absorber- since the a/c has now around 600 hrs/700 landings, could it be the case that it needs to be replaced? Or could it be something else? I know that the mono tends to bounce if not landed "on the point", but I never experienced it in my past 25 landings so badly. Did anyone have a similar experience? I use the large 8.00 tire on it.

  

 Thank you for your help

  

 Frank Kusserow

 Germany

D-EJWD/ Europa Mono Classic/912UL/Warp Drive

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


	


          [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

Erich Trombley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hello Frank,



 I  I have had some really nice landings and some not so nice. During 

 the flare I attempt to keep the plane flying as long as possible 

 before allowing the tail wheel to contact the runway first...stick 

 back and she is down.  If she comes down too earlier then a bounce is 

 inevitable.



 Check that you have the shock absorber installed.  Good luck.



 Erich Trombley



Frank
	


Erich is right. Don't let the plane land until the tail wheel touches, 

then immediately pin the tail to the ground. You might get a tiny bounce 

or two but nothing significant.

This is what I noticed in the early days, (flying an original Classic 

with P51 style tail wheel) ;--

Just as you flare the wings come into ground effect and the tail loses 

the downwash from the wings, result? nose drops. It feels as though the 

airplane has stalled but it hasn't. Next, the mainwheel touches while 

you still have flying speed, nose goes up with the bounce and she 

balloons because you still have flying speed.

Because the airplane is at stall incidence when the tail is on the 

ground, if the tail wheel touches first a serious bounce is not possible.

You must keep the stick moving back as you enter ground effect. This is 

hard to remember while you're doing it but it works.

Graham

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frank and others.

 See original answer below

 Couldn't get the original Mod 29 to post, due to the attachment  types.  

 Frank, the attachments went to your email address OK.

 If any others need it, I'll post it to my website www.customflightcreations.com,  or email you off line.

  

 Bud Yerly

 CFC

 ---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frank and others.

  See original answer below

 Couldn't get the original Mod 29 to post, due to the attachment  types.  

 Frank, the attachments went to your email address OK.

 If any others need it, I'll post it to my website www.customflightcreations.com,  or email you off line.

  

 Bud Yerly

 CFC

 ---

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Carl Pattinson <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:



 Landing at the correct airspeed also helps (too fast and a bounce is

 guaranteed). Even after 200 hrs I still get a frequent bounce on landing -

 Carl

 G-LABS




	


Heck, I still get a bounce after 800 + hours.  Actually I find it more

of a small skip than anything these days.  If I get the main and tail

wheel down at the same time, it will skip a little if there is any

flying speed left.  If I get the tail wheel down first, the I get one

of those greasers that lets get out of the airplane with a dopey grin

on my face.



Actually I used to find my Comanche a bit of a handful to squeak in.

After I was flying the Europa for a while and got a bit more bit more

disciplined about speed control I found I started landing the Comanche

much better.



Cheers,  Paul

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

"Couldn't get the original Mod 29 to post, due to the attachment types."Europa.org has older mods (at)http://www.europaowners.org/dlman.phpNative format is PDFSee Mod 26, 28 and 29Ron Parigoris   [quote][b]

justin(at)systemwise.co.u
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:08 am Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

Hi All,  

   

Although an avid reader of this forum rarely feel that I have something that would contribute to the body of knowledge when you guys are so on top of what you are doing. However “bouncing mono classics” was something that I was good at until it cost me a propeller (no change out of £1000).  

My mono classic has the shock absorbers and the narrow tyre that never rubs. It also has the brake calliper rotated to the back.  

I run the Type at 18 to 24 psi.   

After much deliberation and practice I get a slight skip 50% of the time and grease it on about 45% of the time. The other 5% include “go arounds” and ones I would call “untidy”. This is a huge improvement on my original tally. The main thing is that I am now 95% confident on the approach and enjoy the fact that it is unlikely to cost me another propeller and if it does I will deserve it.  

While I agree with everything people have said, the speed over the threshold and landing is very, very critical. I talked to many an instructor and I am very grateful to the one that came up with the following. The speed on the round out should decay through “the stall speed plus 10% plus half the wind speed. I then add 10 kts to give the threshold speed. My stall speed is 42Kts with full flaps, add 10% to give 47kts (that’s rounded up ½ a knot) and say, for example, a ten knot head wind component gives 52kts. Add ten knots to that and I should come over the threshold with the speed decaying through 62kts. I normally come down the approach at 70kts more if it is needed. I let the speed decay the over the threshold at the calculated speed. At this point I remove the remaining throttle slowly so that the round out is slightly less violent. Sudden removal of all throttle requires a pronounced round out which makes the timing of the manoeuvre very critical. Smooth removal of throttle removes the need to round out so quickly. Round out too quickly you don’t get the high rate of sink required to sink through the ground effect with unfortunate consequences.   

Wow that sounds really complicated but it is how I arrived at an easy relationship with my aeroplane.  

   

So when the controller gives me the wind speed, I think 47+ the half the wind speed or it’s head on component if it is very crosswind. Add 10 kts and that’s what I am aiming to be decaying through when I cross the threshold. (I add a PUF check here (Pitch – Undercarriage – Flap) After that it is just practice. I used it in anger landing at Calais one day with a 35kt wind and it resulted in an absolute greaser. In actual fact the “no wind” situation is more difficult and the formula works for that too.  

   

I apologise if all this speed stuff is common knowledge but it wasn’t mentioned in any of the posts on the subject.  

   

Happy Landings  

Justin  

   

Justin Kennedy  

G-ZTED Europa Classic Monowheel 912S with Airmaster Prop  

   

   

   

      [quote][b]

FelixH

Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 1

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Bouncing Mono Classic

Dear all,



it is interesting and reassuring to hear that I am not the only one finding it a challenge to land the Europa bounce free! I have only very recently converted to the Classic monowheel. Thus far in the 15 or so hours I have flown I had one really bouncy landing from which I had to go round. The rest were okay.

In general the landing were fine as long as I remembered to hold off long enough, making sure the tailwheel touches the ground slightly before the mainwheel and the stick is kept hard back once on the ground.  Flying from quite a bumpy grass airfield with some quite large undulations running across it doesn't help either. 



Be very interesting to hear from anybody else with tips for landing!



Cheers, Felix

rick(at)amimotormanagemen
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

Jeez Justin

  

 Don't try that on my 300 metre strip  with no wind and at gross! 

  

 Rick Morris

  

 G-RIKS 912S Tri 500  hours.



   From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Justin  Kennedy

Sent: 30 January 2009 14:43

To:  europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bouncing Mono  Classic

 

  

Hi All, 

  

Although an avid reader of this  forum rarely feel that I have something that would contribute to the body of  knowledge when you guys are so on top of what you are doing. However “bouncing  mono classics” was something that I was good at until it cost me a propeller (no  change out of £1000). 

My mono classic has the shock  absorbers and the narrow tyre that never rubs. It also has the brake calliper  rotated to the back. 

I run the Type at 18 to 24 psi.   

After much deliberation and practice  I get a slight skip 50% of the time and grease it on about 45% of the time. The  other 5% include “go arounds” and ones I would call “untidy”. This is a huge  improvement on my original tally. The main thing is that I am now 95% confident  on the approach and enjoy the fact that it is unlikely to cost me another  propeller and if it does I will deserve it. 

While I agree with everything people  have said, the speed over the threshold and landing is very, very critical. I  talked to many an instructor and I am very grateful to the one that came up with  the following. The speed on the round out should decay through “the stall speed  plus 10% plus half the wind speed. I then add 10 kts to give the threshold  speed. My stall speed is 42Kts with full flaps, add 10% to give 47kts (that’s  rounded up ½ a knot) and say, for example, a ten knot head wind component gives  52kts. Add ten knots to that and I should come over the threshold with the speed  decaying through 62kts. I normally come down the approach at 70kts more if it is  needed. I let the speed decay the over the threshold at the calculated speed. At  this point I remove the remaining throttle slowly so that the round out is  slightly less violent. Sudden removal of all throttle requires a pronounced  round out which makes the timing of the manoeuvre very critical. Smooth removal  of throttle removes the need to round out so quickly. Round out too quickly you  don’t get the high rate of sink required to sink through the ground effect with  unfortunate consequences.  

Wow that sounds really complicated  but it is how I arrived at an easy relationship with my  aeroplane. 

  

So when the controller gives me the  wind speed, I think 47+ the half the wind speed or it’s head on component if it  is very crosswind. Add 10 kts and that’s what I am aiming to be decaying through  when I cross the threshold. (I add a PUF check here (Pitch – Undercarriage –  Flap) After that it is just practice. I used it in anger landing at Calais one day with a 35kt  wind and it resulted in an absolute greaser. In actual fact the “no wind”  situation is more difficult and the formula works for that  too. 

  

I apologise if all this speed stuff  is common knowledge but it wasn’t mentioned in any of the posts on the  subject. 

  

Happy  Landings 

Justin 

  

Justin  Kennedy 

G-ZTED Europa Classic Monowheel 912S  with Airmaster Prop 

  

  

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
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     [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

Justin Kennedy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I used it in anger landing at Calais one day with a 35kt wind and it 

 resulted in an absolute greaser. In actual fact the “no wind” 

 situation is more difficult and the formula works for that too.



 I apologise if all this speed stuff is common knowledge but it wasn’t 

 mentioned in any of the posts on the subject.



 Happy Landings



 Justin



 Justin Kennedy



 G-ZTED Europa Classic Monowheel 912S with Airmaster Prop



Justin
	


you also mentioned using a little throttle on finals which I forgot 

about. The sink rate is quite high with throttle closed so I would leave 

power on until after round out. One less thing to think of during the 

flare  ?

Graham

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:56 am Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

‘bout time you got it stretched!??????????????????/  

Regards  

Bob H   

Do not archive.  

   

--

charleslaverty(at)googlem
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:55 am Post subject: Bouncing Mono Classic

hi Graham

                   pc problem, sorry you didnt make it this far. If you 

recieve this ok can you reply?

                                                                     regards

                                                                             

       Chas

---

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