Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Airshow compensation

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

lacloudchaser(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: Airshow compensation

Again, Ron should read my original email - word for word - 

   

  and I quote that original email:

   

  1. Research the regulation and rule extensively, the best way to 

argue the merits of your position is to have an equal command of that regulation 

a s the does the enforcer/interpreter. Jeff mentioned the details could be 

found in 91.500 or 501 which should be online - warning, I've never met a FSDO 

who could remember every regulation, but take a look.

   

  Perhaps I needed to make that point more clear:  A Government employee (Jeff) quoted a regulation and sounded unsure of himself, and I am suggesting, if you are passionate about this issue to research the regulations/rules governing this issue yourself...and in the last part of this paragraph I warn the reader that I do not trust FSDO/FAA employees to quote the correct regulations off hand (hint, I've had more than one m  eeting  with FSDOs in SOCAL over restricting our aircraft operations and have experienced this confusion over where to find their own answers, that is not a dig on FSDOs; the sheer number of regulations and other publications churned out by the FAA is beyond imagination)

   

  I have not looked up his regulation quotes and leave that up to those folks who are taking a personal interest in this issue.

   

  Hope that covers this,

   

  Drew





 		Yahoo! Travel

  [url=http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFscDlocTFiBF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDMjcxOTQ4MQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDbWFpbC1mb290ZXIEc2xrA3l0LXR0/SIG=12hqieud9/**http%3a//leisure.travelocity.com/Promotions/0,,YHOE%7c1381%7cvacs_main,00.html]Find   great deals[/url] to the top 10 hottest destinations!

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

flushjohnson(at)charter.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: Airshow compensation

Drew;   Has any body considered the fact  that we are actually being " reimbursed " not compensated. To be  compensated means to work or make a profit. We spend far more than the  reimbursement and are not air show performers. Has this been pointed out to the  FAA?

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: Airshow compensation

forrest johnson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Drew;   Has any body considered the fact that we are actually being " 

 reimbursed " not compensated. To be compensated means to work or make a 

 profit. We spend far more than the reimbursement and are not air show 

 performers. Has this been pointed out to the FAA?


	


The problem is that the flying is not ancillary to other activity 

(airshow). When I fly to visit a client for business I may be reimbursed 

by my employer for costs because the flying is *ancillary* to the 

business activity, e.g. I could drive my car and still accomplish the 

business activity.



When I fly to an airshow the activity (airshow) and travel to the 

activity are inexorably intertwined. I could not drive my car and still 

accomplish the activity.



Therefore you cannot convince the FAA that flying to the airshow is 

ancillary to the airshow and that reimbursement is appropriate.



They have us by the proverbial plums on this one.



Brian Lloyd

brian-yak(at)lloyd.com

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: Airshow compensation

So Brian what about this,



"I flew to the airport to have a lunch meeting and wouldn't you know it

there was a bloody air show on there."



)



Gus 



--

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: Airshow compensation

Yeh and you have multiple 5x8 glossy's of the client you met with along

with minutes from the meeting you had with that client. Oh, by the way,

there was an airshow there too. They were kind enough to refuel my plane at

no cost because it was a warbird that I incidentally flew to KXXX airport.

Since they really would like to have that kind of warbird on the ramp, they

also included a rental car and motel room for me so I would stick around

for a couple of days with my warbird. Now of course, since I was just

sticking around, I did fly in the mass formation. After all I am FAST

qualified and I need to proficiency flights so I can keep my card along

with that 10% discount on my insurance. Well of course, since I did fly in

this ancillary airshow that just happened to be at the airport I chose to

have free finger foods from the pilots lounge while meeting with my client,

I should not have to claim this as reimbursement. It is a buisness expense

for me to be there is it not Mr. IRS and FAA man???!!

Lets see here, does this pass the Sh_ _ test....It smells like sh--...It

tastes like S---, It must be S---. Glad I did not step in it! I'll write

you at Folsom.

Seriously, instead of looking for ways to get around this rule just do the

time and get the T Shirt. If this is so important, then spend the money,

invest the time, and get the commercial. Most of us can do the Lazy 8's,

turns around a pylon (Hell how about a dime with a YAK, sorry ChiYak

guys... a quarter for you all), spot landings, and max performance TO's. So

what's the big deal? You can read and write correct...so you can pass the

written. Now all it takes is clicking the mouse to take the test. Just do

it...then we can get back to arguing about more important things

like...flame proof nickers!

If you take the test in your warbird, the examiner gets to have fun too

along with you! If you have a prick for a examiner, come to 08A, we have a

guy that loves to give the check rides in warbirds. After all, what is more

boring that doing floating spot landing and figure 8's in a spam can?!

Doc

 

[quote] [Original Message]

 From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser(at)gs.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <yak-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: 3/20/2006 11:30:34 AM

 Subject: RE: Airshow compensation



 



 So Brian what about this,



 "I flew to the airport to have a lunch meeting and wouldn't you know it

 there was a bloody air show on there."



 )



 Gus 



 --

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: Airshow compensation

Fraser, Gus wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 So Brian what about this,

 

 "I flew to the airport to have a lunch meeting and wouldn't you know it

 there was a bloody air show on there."


	


Then they hit you with the old, "failure to collect and utilize all the 

information available to you."



And when all else fails and they can't think of what to hit you with 

they can always fall back on "careless and reckless", by their 

definition, of course.



Dealing with the FAA is like dealing with the three laws of 

thermodynamics. In the vernacular they are:



1. you can't win;



2. you can't break even;



3. you can't get out of the game.



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: Airshow compensation

Forrest;    Unfortunately, the  American Heritage dictionary defines "compensate" as 1. to make up for  2.counterbalance 3.to make payment to 4.to "reimburse".  They define  "reimburse" as 1. to pay back.

  

 The two terms seem to be somewhat interchangeable.  I know, it's idiotic because we all seem to know that they really don't mean the  same thing, but I'm afraid that the legal system may use the dictionary  correlation. (You got me all excited here because it looked like a very  good point, so I looked it up.)   - Val

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum