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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Kolb gurus C

  

   By any chance C does anyone have a little bit of the rib reinforcing tape left?  I need enough to finish the bottom of a wing.

  

   Some history.  Years ago C back when I was working on my plane more C I covered the TOP of one wing (with fabric and rib tape.)  For all kinds of reasons C the wing was put outside C under a tarp C and eventually the fabric and tape rotted off.  So C initially C I DID have enough tape C but having to recover that wing caused me to be about that much short.

  

   Dondi only sells a whole roll.  I don't need anything near that much.  So C by any chance C for those of you that have completed your taping requirements C can you consider sending your "extra".  Maybe a couple of donations would be able to get me by.

  

   Thanks.

  

   Michael Sharp was correct.  How in the world can I finish building the plane when I keep hopping in it C and making engine noises?  Actually C most of my delay is due to completing my "Classic to Xtra" conversion.  For the most part C I have done all I'm gonna do (thank God) C and am finally past all the "diversions".  That's why I'm so darn happy to finally be in the Poly Fiber stage......to late to change it now!!!

  

   BTW C Mike Sharp asked if anyone had any extra Poly Spray C last year.  He only needed a little bit.  I sent him about 4-6 ounces....just 'cause he's a nice guy.  We have since met C gone to dinner (with our wives) C and in fact C my wife and I spent Christmas dinner with him C and his family.  So remember this quote!  A friend in need C is a friend indeed!!

  

   Even if you only have a few feet of that tape..I'm taking donations.  I thought I'd start here with the list C and if this doesn't work C I'll stand out on the offramp with a cardboard sign...."will work for reinforcing tape".  Might not be as effective C though.

  

 Mike Welch

 Do not archive

  

 PS.  I saw a photo of someone's radiator mount they made out of chromoly tubing.  Very nice job.  It kind of looked like a dynofocal engine mount.  Can you send me the photo?  Anybody?  Anybody?   (Bob Bean??)

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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:50 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

52 bucks a roll at Spruce!!!     I would go to Wal Mart and buy polyester ribbon (fused edge acetate )  before I would pay that price..!!   just slather it on with diluted poly tac or poly brush.....frugal  Herb    



 At 11:22 AM 2/28/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]Kolb gurus,

  

   By any chance, does anyone have a little bit of the rib reinforcing tape left?  I need enough to finish the bottom of a wing.

  

   Some history.  Years ago, back when I was working on my plane more, I covered the TOP of one wing (with fabric and rib tape.)  For all kinds of reasons, the wing was put outside, under a tarp, and eventually the fabric and tape rotted off.  So, initially, I DID have enough tape, but having to recover that wing caused me to be about that much short.

  

   Dondi only sells a whole roll.  I don't need anything near that much.  So, by any chance, for those of you that have completed your taping requirements, can you consider sending your "extra".  Maybe a couple of donations would be able to get me by.

  

   Thanks.

  

   Michael Sharp was correct.  How in the world can I finish building the plane when I keep hopping in it, and making engine noises?  Actually, most of my delay is due to completing my "Classic to Xtra" conversion.  For the most part, I have done all I'm gonna do (thank God), and am finally past all the "diversions".  That's why I'm so darn happy to finally be in the Poly Fiber stage......to late to change it now!!!

  

   BTW, Mike Sharp asked if anyone had any extra Poly Spray, last year.  He only needed a little bit.  I sent him about 4-6 ounces....just 'cause he's a nice guy.  We have since met, gone to dinner (with our wives), and in fact, my wife and I spent Christmas dinner with him, and his family.  So remember this quote!  A friend in need, is a friend indeed!!

  

   Even if you only have a few feet of that tape..I'm taking donations.  I thought I'd start here with the list, and if this doesn't work, I'll stand out on the offramp with a cardboard sign...."will work for reinforcing tape".  Might not be as effective, though.

  

 Mike Welch

 Do not archive

  

 PS.  I saw a photo of someone's radiator mount they made out of chromoly tubing.  Very nice job.  It kind of looked like a dynofocal engine mount.  Can you send me the photo?  Anybody?  Anybody?   (Bob Bean??)



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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Hmm C Jerb.

  

   I think I might give that a check out.  After all C I only need the tape for the lower surface.

  I had enough to do the top.

   I think the bottom has much less demand placed on it C compared to the top.

  

 Mike Welch

 

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Mike 



   I have two rolls to use on my next project...and I am perfectly satisfied that it will work just fine..  That said...I haven't checked to make sure that it will burn through with a soldering iron...Herb 



 ps I will use it top and bottom...



 At 12:40 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]Hmm, Jerb.

  

   I think I might give that a check out.  After all, I only need the tape for the lower surface.

  I had enough to do the top.

   I think the bottom has much less demand placed on it, compared to the top.

  

 Mike Welch

  



  	  Quote: 	
		   	


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 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Remember that gang, when Herb tries to sell you one  of the airplanes he covered.  

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

 [quote]    

    52 bucks a roll    at Spruce!!!     I would go to Wal Mart and buy polyester    ribbon (fused edge acetate )  before I would pay that    price..!!   just slather it on with diluted poly tac or poly    brush.....frugal  Herb   



 [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Mike W:

  

 Better do some research on that.

  

 I thought one major role of the fabric was to  keep the wing together and parts in position.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]       I think the bottom has much less    demand placed on it, compared to the top.

 

Mike Welch

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

did I know that was coming??       The airplane that it will go on is my  long anticipated Ultra Tri Fly...  Bit longer with...24 feet.wing ..training wheel...7 gals,,,half vw...high tail boom..



    gonna be so purty that guys will buy it even if covered in denim... or dacron sizing...er um   cloth...  Herb   



 

 At 01:37 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]Remember that gang, when Herb tries to sell you one of the airplanes he covered.  

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

    

      52 bucks a roll at Spruce!!!     I would go to Wal Mart and buy polyester ribbon (fused edge acetate )  before I would pay that price..!!   just slather it on with diluted poly tac or poly brush.....frugal  Herb   



   



  

 [b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

John C

  

   My comment was referring to the rib reinforcement tape C since that was the subject of the thread.  The bottom surface 99% of the time is pressed against the ribs.  It seems intuitive to me C the stress on the rib tape LESS C than the stress on the top surface rib tape.  I would think that the top of the wing the rib tape is trying to be "sucked up" 99% of the time.

  

   If I wasn't clear enough C sorry C I was referring to rib tape.

  

 Mike

  

   

  

 

 

  From: jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Date: Sat C 28 Feb 2009 13:39:09 -0600



  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}   Mike W:

  

 Better do some research on that.

  

 I thought one major role of the fabric was to keep the wing together and parts in position.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		       I think the bottom has much less demand placed on it C compared to the top.

 

Mike Welch

 





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ronics.com

ww.matronics.com/contribution



	
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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Mike:

  

 My understanding is the reinforcement tape  reinforces the fabric where it is mechanically attached to the rib, top or  bottom.  Have no idea how much stress is placed on it top or bottom.   I do know one of the primary requirements of fabric, reinforcement tape, rivets,  and trim tape is to keep ribs, full and false, in position.  Ribs have very  little strength laterally.

  

 Don't think my wing is the place for walmart  ribbon.

  

 Hope you guys are just kidding about using  it.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

 [quote]      My comment was referring to the rib    reinforcement tape, since that was the subject of the thread.  The bottom    surface 99% of the time is pressed against the ribs.  It seems intuitive    to me, the stress on the rib tape LESS, than the stress on the top surface rib    tape.  I would think that the top of the wing the rib tape is trying to    be "sucked up" 99% of the time.

 

  If I wasn't clear enough,    sorry, I was referring to rib tape.

 

Mike

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

For the record...My Firefly is bone std...other than the full 

enclosure...    Herb

  do not archive..

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

The real problem with using fabric / department store polyester cloth is that you most likely have no way of knowing what sizing chemicals were used on it. If it's silicone, it could create bonds that are something less than optimal to the tape or subsequent coating. One of the Long EZ builders found this out when he used fabric store polyester as peel ply. The silicone sizing in the cloth caused the bond to any attachments attempted later to be nonexistant. The fuselage had to be scrapped.

 Let's see, about $15K for kit and covering, $52 is .35%. Brings the phrase "penny wise and pound foolish" to mind.

If it's just a few feet, why not get out the pinking shears and make what you need? Even if you had to order a yard or two of heavy weight fabric you'd be money ahead.

 



Rick

do not archive



On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:51 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		           Mike:

  

 My understanding is the reinforcement tape  reinforces the fabric where it is mechanically attached to the rib, top or  bottom.  Have no idea how much stress is placed on it top or bottom.   I do know one of the primary requirements of fabric, reinforcement tape, rivets,  and trim tape is to keep ribs, full and false, in position.  Ribs have very  little strength laterally.

  

 Don't think my wing is the place for walmart  ribbon.

  

 Hope you guys are just kidding about using  it.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		        My comment was referring to the rib    reinforcement tape, since that was the subject of the thread.  The bottom    surface 99% of the time is pressed against the ribs.  It seems intuitive    to me, the stress on the rib tape LESS, than the stress on the top surface rib    tape.  I would think that the top of the wing the rib tape is trying to    be "sucked up" 99% of the time.

 

  If I wasn't clear enough,    sorry, I was referring to rib tape.

 

Mike

 

	
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[/b] 	


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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Yep...Know all about that...Aircraft fabric should be woven using some sort of water process..whatever that is?  So they tell us when charging three prices for it..



      Using fabric store cloth requires one to know the difference... Wiping down with acetone or mek is wise.. and that might not be enough... On fiberglass/carbon fiber layups...wise to use the std peel ply or know the difference.. I have spent many hours helping to do layups...polish molds... enough to know that I wouldn't want to do that for a complete project...Vacuuming bagging is a pain in the ass...always a leak or two...  

    



 I started this thread in response to Mikes question about  the half inch reinforcing tape  that is placed over the ribs and adds some strength to the bond between the large head rivets and the fabric..itself...  There are perfectly safe substitutes out there...I suggested one... I may have said ribbon...which in actuality it is not... sort of a seam.bias tape...



   Lets see...3500 for project...add 600 for covering and paint...I have about 4200 in my brand new firefly...    It is obviously not about cost...but I would not want to fall out of the air on principle either...   Thinking outside the box has its perils on this list...been there several times...Herb  



 

 oopss just remembered...I added single , streamlined lift struts to my Firefly...not std at all..more like the firestar now... 



      



 

 At 04:17 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]The real problem with using fabric / department store polyester cloth is that you most likely have no way of knowing what sizing chemicals were used on it. If it's silicone, it could create bonds that are something less than optimal to the tape or subsequent coating.

 One of the Long EZ builders found this out when he used fabric store polyester as peel ply. The silicone sizing in the cloth caused the bond to any attachments attempted later to be nonexistant. The fuselage had to be scrapped.

 Let's see, about $15K for kit and covering, $52 is .35%. Brings the phrase "penny wise and pound foolish" to mind.

 If it's just a few feet, why not get out the pinking shears and make what you need? Even if you had to order a yard or two of heavy weight fabric you'd be money ahead.



 Rick

 do not archive



 On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:51 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

   Mike:

   

  My understanding is the reinforcement tape reinforces the fabric where it is mechanically attached to the rib, top or bottom.  Have no idea how much stress is placed on it top or bottom.  I do know one of the primary requirements of fabric, reinforcement tape, rivets, and trim tape is to keep ribs, full and false, in position.  Ribs have very little strength laterally.

   

  Don't think my wing is the place for walmart ribbon.

   

  Hope you guys are just kidding about using it.

   

  john h

  mkIII

   

   

   

      My comment was referring to the rib reinforcement tape, since that was the subject of the thread.  The bottom surface 99% of the time is pressed against the ribs.  It seems intuitive to me, the stress on the rib tape LESS, than the stress on the top surface rib tape.  I would think that the top of the wing the rib tape is trying to be "sucked up" 99% of the time.

   

    If I wasn't clear enough, sorry, I was referring to rib tape.

   

  Mike

   

 

   ====== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

  tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 

 

  



 [b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Herb C

  

   Seeing as I had only one response to plea for a little bit of reinforcing tape (from JD Stewart C who lives 20 miles away) C I ended up heading to my local WalMart.

   Guess what?  I'd bet a million bucks the stuff they sell is EXACTLY the same as the Poly Fiber stuff. (except for the sticky backing)

   At the very least...it'll damn sure work just fine!!

  

   From the Poly Fiber product description for their tape.....high density 100% polyester

   WalMart stuff (if someone did't tell you C you wouldn't know!).........100% polyester

  

   I just finished Poly Tak'ing it on.  I swear C if I didn't say anything C no one would ever know the difference.  BTW C it cost 1/10th the Poly Fiber brand.  Not having the sticky backing is only slightly tougher to apply.

  

 Mike Welch

  

 PS.  I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share my opinion privately to someone on the list)  John H thinks he's the ultimate authority when it comes to all things Kolb.  NOT in my opinion C he isn't!!

 

  Date: Sat C 28 Feb 2009 16:36:50 -0600

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

From: herbgh(at)nctc.com

Subject: Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?



Yep...Know all about that...Aircraft fabric should be woven using some sort of water process..whatever that is?  So they tell us when charging three prices for it..



     Using fabric store cloth requires one to know the difference... Wiping down with acetone or mek is wise.. and that might not be enough... On fiberglass/carbon fiber layups...wise to use the std peel ply or know the difference.. I have spent many hours helping to do layups...polish molds... enough to know that I wouldn't want to do that for a complete project...Vacuuming bagging is a pain in the ass...always a leak or two...  

   



I started this thread in response to Mikes question about the half inch reinforcing tape  that is placed over the ribs and adds some strength to the bond between the large head rivets and the fabric..itself...  There are perfectly safe substitutes out there...I suggested one... I may have said ribbon...which in actuality it is not... sort of a seam.bias tape...



  Lets see...3500 for project...add 600 for covering and paint...I have about 4200 in my brand new firefly..    It is obviously not about cost...but I would not want to fall out of the air on principle either...   Thinking outside the box has its perils on this list...been there several times...Herb  

oopss just remembered...I added single  C streamlined lift struts to my Firefly...not std at all..more like the firestar now... 



     

At 04:17 PM 2/28/2009 C you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The real problem with using fabric / department store polyester cloth is that you most likely have no way of knowing what sizing chemicals were used on it. If it's silicone C it could create bonds that are something less than optimal to the tape or subsequent coating.

One of the Long EZ builders found this out when he used fabric store polyester as peel ply. The silicone sizing in the cloth caused the bond to any attachments attempted later to be nonexistant. The fuselage had to be scrapped.

Let's see C about $15K for kit and covering C $52 is .35%. Brings the phrase "penny wise and pound foolish" to mind.

If it's just a few feet C why not get out the pinking shears and make what you need? Even if you had to order a yard or two of heavy weight fabric you'd be money ahead.



Rick

do not archive



On Sat C Feb 28 C 2009 at 2:51 PM C John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

  Mike:

  

 My understanding is the reinforcement tape reinforces the fabric where it is mechanically attached to the rib C top or bottom.  Have no idea how much stress is placed on it top or bottom.  I do know one of the primary requirements of fabric C reinforcement tape C rivets C and trim tape is to keep ribs C full and false C in position.  Ribs have very little strength laterally.

  

 Don't think my wing is the place for walmart ribbon.

  

 Hope you guys are just kidding about using it.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

     My comment was referring to the rib reinforcement tape C since that was the subject of the thread.  The bottom surface 99% of the time is pressed against the ribs.  It seems intuitive to me C the stress on the rib tape LESS C than the stress on the top surface rib tape.  I would think that the top of the wing the rib tape is trying to be "sucked up" 99% of the time.

  

   If I wasn't clear enough C sorry C I was referring to rib tape.

  

 Mike

  



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 tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 







ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

ronics.com

ww.matronics.com/contribution



	
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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

At 09:54 PM 3/3/2009, Mike Welch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

PS.  I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share my 

opinion privately to someone on the list)  John H thinks he's the ultimate 

authority when it comes to all things Kolb.  NOT in my opinion, he isn't!!


	


I don't know if John's the "ultimate authority", I don't _always_ agree 

with him, but he's been flying Kolbs for longer than nearly anybody else 

except Homer and Dennis, so he's always worth listening to.  Listen, and 

then (as he himself would say) make up your own mind.



-Dana



--

  A day without sunshine is like, night.

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Hi Mike



   Its main function imho is to reinforce the cloth under the rivet head and  its  length adds some linear strength to the cloth over the rib...   helps the cloth to lay down and not balloon between rivets...on the top side...mainly..  over time this mild ballooning over the ribs and in between the rivets could fatigue either the fabric or the rib ... I do not doubt  that the fabric adds strength to the wing given the fact that the rear spar carries the ailerons with only the help of the ribs ... I have always thought that at high speed, probably in a high g  , knife edge like turn( a definite no no!!)   that the wing could flex and cause aileron reversal...which could spoil ones day... if low enough...another no no!! 



   Give Homer a lot of credit...he always erred on the side of safety and used accepted aircraft practice when it came to hardware.. ..  but  back  when he was designing, this roll of reinforcing tape cost maybe 7 bucks..??      



   I bet  Homer would have shopped in the aviation dept.  at Wal Mart were they in business  back then??      They also have a nice kit of 4 colors of vinyl tape...red,yellow,blue and white...makes for nice repairs of small damaged areas..    



 

  Hope everyone knows,speaking of penny wise and pound wise,  that if you ask Aircraft Spruce for uncertified fabric...they will sell you the high priced spread that is on page 331 of current catalog...1.7 oz that is..  $7.65 yd...



 turn the page and on 332 is Dacron Fabric for Homebuilt aircraft..$2.95 yd...1.8 oz ( I have covered two planes with this and it works just fine,depending on wing loading.)     2.7 oz is $4.25..( good for all other Kolbs..but Firefly I would guess.)       Stitts sells an uncertified lite for $7.65 yd...    on page 325...  



 

   also note that spruce sends gallons of poly products sans haz material charges..with UPS.  at one time it was cheaper to buy quarts since there was no similar charge on that quantity..

   

 Herb 



 

 At 08:54 PM 3/3/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]Herb,

  

   Seeing as I had only one response to plea for a little bit of reinforcing tape (from JD Stewart, who lives 20 miles away), I ended up heading to my local WalMart.

   Guess what?  I'd bet a million bucks the stuff they sell is EXACTLY the same as the Poly Fiber stuff. (except for the sticky backing)

   At the very least...it'll damn sure work just fine!!

  

   From the Poly Fiber product description for their tape.....high density 100% polyester

   WalMart stuff (if someone did't tell you, you wouldn't know!)..........100% polyester

  

   I just finished Poly Tak'ing it on.  I swear, if I didn't say anything, no one would ever know the difference.  BTW, it cost 1/10th the Poly Fiber brand.  Not having the sticky backing is only slightly tougher to apply.

  

 Mike Welch

  

 PS.  I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share my opinion privately to someone on the list)  John H thinks he's the ultimate authority when it comes to all things Kolb.  NOT in my opinion, he isn't!!

  

  Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:36:50 -0600

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 From: herbgh(at)nctc.com

 Subject: Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?



 Yep...Know all about that...Aircraft fabric should be woven using some sort of water process..whatever that is?  So they tell us when charging three prices for it..



      Using fabric store cloth requires one to know the difference... Wiping down with acetone or mek is wise.. and that might not be enough... On fiberglass/carbon fiber layups...wise to use the std peel ply or know the difference.. I have spent many hours helping to do layups...polish molds... enough to know that I wouldn't want to do that for a complete project...Vacuuming bagging is a pain in the ass...always a leak or two...  

    



 I started this thread in response to Mikes question about the half inch reinforcing tape  that is placed over the ribs and adds some strength to the bond between the large head rivets and the fabric..itself...  There are perfectly safe substitutes out there...I suggested one... I may have said ribbon...which in actuality it is not... sort of a seam.bias tape...



   Lets see...3500 for project...add 600 for covering and paint...I have about 4200 in my brand new firefly...    It is obviously not about cost...but I would not want to fall out of the air on principle either...   Thinking outside the box has its perils on this list...been there several times...Herb  



 

 oopss just remembered...I added single , streamlined lift struts to my Firefly...not std at all..more like the firestar now... 



      



 

 At 04:17 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:

   The real problem with using fabric / department store polyester cloth is that you most likely have no way of knowing what sizing chemicals were used on it. If it's silicone, it could create bonds that are something less than optimal to the tape or subsequent coating.

  One of the Long EZ builders found this out when he used fabric store polyester as peel ply. The silicone sizing in the cloth caused the bond to any attachments attempted later to be nonexistant. The fuselage had to be scrapped.

  Let's see, about $15K for kit and covering, $52 is .35%. Brings the phrase "penny wise and pound foolish" to mind.

  If it's just a few feet, why not get out the pinking shears and make what you need? Even if you had to order a yard or two of heavy weight fabric you'd be money ahead.



  Rick

  do not archive



  On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:51 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:  Mike:   My understanding is the reinforcement tape reinforces the fabric where it is mechanically attached to the rib, top or bottom.  Have no idea how much stress is placed on it top or bottom.  I do know one of the primary requirements of fabric, reinforcement tape, rivets, and trim tape is to keep ribs, full and false, in position.  Ribs have very little strength laterally.   Don't think my wing is the place for walmart ribbon.   Hope you guys are just kidding about using it.   john h mkIII           My comment was referring to the rib reinforcement tape, since that was the subject of the thread.  The bottom surface 99% of the time is pressed against the ribs.  It seems intuitive to me, the stress on the rib tape LESS, than the stress on the top surface rib tape.  I would think that the top of the wing the rib tape is trying to be "sucked up" 99% of the time.     If I wasn't clear enough, sorry, I was referring to rib tape.   Mike  



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lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

[quote] ---

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NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Mike

  

 I'm glad you found something you think will work.  

  

 John is one of the first that tries to help. If you don't  agree with him that is your choice. I don't think your  personal comment is called for.

  

 I don't recommend anything that isn't standard  procedure with anything structural. The reinforcing tape you found maybe  perfectly ok but I don't know so I didn't say anything. If I felt that this  might cause a safety issue I would feel it is necessary to say  something. I don't think I'm much of a authority on anything but if I can help  maintain the good Kolb reputation or point out something I think is  unsafe I will make a post. If I'm wrong I would hope someone would correct  me. I see John doing the same thing.

  

 Do not archive

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC   

 [quote]   ---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

Well.....Mike, everyone is entitled to their  opinion.  I'm entitled to mine.

  

 I have been around Kolbs a while, built three,  rebuilt the same three, and done a lot of flying in them over the past 25  years.   

  

 Sorry it bothers you if I exercise my right to  voice my opinion.  Being a member of the Kolb List does not mean I have to  agree with all your decisions.  You certainly do not have to agree with  mine.

  

 No, I don't think I am the ultimate authority when  it comes to Kolbs.  I learn new stuff about them quite often from  members of this List.  I try to keep my ears open most of the  time.

  

 No, I'm not going to get my covering supplies from  Wal-Mart, but if you say you are going to use the Wal-Mart Covering System to  cover your Kolb, I'll probably have  a comment or two to make about  it.

  

 john h

 mkIII -   2,872.1 hours

 912ULS - 304.2 hours

  

 [quote]    Mike Welch

 

PS.  I often    find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share my opinion privately    to someone on the list)  John H thinks he's the ultimate authority when    it comes to all things Kolb.  NOT in my opinion, he isn't!!

 

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?

I don't know if this is a private coversation  between Herb and Mike W or not.  If it gets posted on this List it is  addressed to all members.

  

 I agree with Herb on the function of the  reinforcing tape and the wing fabric.  Not only does the  covering make a sail, but it reinforces the entire wing  structure.

  

 Homer is still designing and building  airplanes.  Doubt very seriously he is shopping for parts from  Wal-Marts.

  

 Back when he designed and built his first aircraft,  a hang glider made of conduit, plastic covering, and tape, nothing on that  aircraft was aviation quality.  All that changed when he started designing  airplanes to kit.

  

 One of the primary reasons I bought a Kolb  Ultrastar for my first civilian aircraft was the fact that most of the little  airplane was aviation quality, all the parts that were critical to safe  flight.  Very few parts on that 1984 Ultrastar were not aircraft grade  hardware.  Certainly, all covering materials were Stitts, and it remained  that way right through a kit you buy from TNK today.

  

 Steve Whitman was a real aviation pioneer, air  racer, designer, builder, pilot, right up into his 90's.  He paid the  ultimate price, along with his wife, because he did not follow prescribed  procedure for covering the aircraft he and his wife were flying on a return trip  from Sun and Fun, Lakeland, Florida.  Somewhere over Tennessee the Whitman  came apart in the air.

  

 Take care,

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]      Its main function imho is to    reinforce the cloth under the rivet head and  its  length adds some    linear strength to the cloth over the rib...   helps the cloth to    lay down and not balloon between rivets...on the top side...mainly..     over time this mild ballooning over the ribs and in between the rivets could    fatigue either the fabric or the rib ...  

   



  I bet     Homer would have shopped in the aviation dept.  at Wal Mart were they in    business  back then??       

     

Herb 

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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