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Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

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AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

Ugg - what an ugly job. My 2 cents worth.  First read the instructions like it says in vans instruction kit. The diagrams suck, so you have to read them and look at them several times. Also read Tim Olsen's excellent post on this item - it has a lot of good info. You kind of have to work on all of the parts together but start on the nose extension early. The whole process requires that you put on and take off the cowl about 50 times.



1. I think that the reason that Tim had trouble on the alignment is that the box is twisted as it comes from Vans - it is not straight. 



2. I fitted my upper aluminum part of the box to the nose to get the length right and the alignment. It seemed to work out well. Not so great on the length, but great on the alignment. I cut off too much of the nose extension and had to glue it back on. 



3. Do not overlook DLM's post on reinforcing the alt air system. Do not want to suck anything into your nice engine. Essentially, he says to put a reinforcement ring INSIDE the FAB to reinforce the flimsy fiberglass so that your rivets do not get sucked into the engine. His glass box failed at the rivets at 100 hrs. Thanks for the heads up Dave



4. Finally, spend a bit of time getting the cut out right for the mixture lever. It is a bit difficult to get the cut out just right on the pilot side of the box, and you do not want to have to redo it.



5. Be mindful of the orientation of everything especially the recessed aluminum top to the FAB and the dimple direction



Any other hint on this ugly job will help all



Good luck on an ugly job. If you need pics or anything leave me a message

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

Mike, I wasn't sure which thing you were talking about that

I wrote...is this the page?

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/engine/20051127/index.html



It's been so long that I don't remember as much about it

as I should, other than that glassing the nozzle on the cowl

was a pain in the butt, building the FAB was a pain in the

butt, and the directions kind of stunk.   It really wasn't

THAT bad, but by the time you're at this step, building

and fiberglass is starting to get old.  I have yet to put

the reinforcement ring inside mine, but thanks for bringing

it up again...I need to remember to do that next time the

cowl is off.



There are definitely more fun parts of the plane to build.

I was just thrilled that being an IO-540, I didn't need

to install carb heat.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying



AirMike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Ugg - what an ugly job. My 2 cents worth.  First read the

 instructions like it says in vans instruction kit. The diagrams suck,

 so you have to read them and look at them several times. Also read

 Tim Olsen's excellent post on this item - it has a lot of good info.

 You kind of have to work on all of the parts together but start on

 the nose extension early. The whole process requires that you put on

 and take off the cowl about 50 times.

 

 1. I think that the reason that Tim had trouble on the alignment is

 that the box is twisted as it comes from Vans - it is not straight.

 

 2. I fitted my upper aluminum part of the box to the nose to get the

 length right and the alignment. It seemed to work out well. Not so

 great on the length, but great on the alignment. I cut off too much

 of the nose extension and had to glue it back on.

 

 3. Do not overlook DLM's post on reinforcing the alt air system. Do

 not want to suck anything into your nice engine. Essentially, he says

 to put a reinforcement ring INSIDE the FAB to reinforce the flimsy

 fiberglass so that your rivets do not get sucked into the engine. His

 glass box failed at the rivets at 100 hrs. Thanks for the heads up

 Dave

 

 4. Finally, spend a bit of time getting the cut out right for the

 mixture lever. It is a bit difficult to get the cut out just right on

 the pilot side of the box, and you do not want to have to redo it.

 

 5. Be mindful of the orientation of everything especially the

 recessed aluminum top to the FAB and the dimple direction

 

 Any other hint on this ugly job will help all

 

 Good luck on an ugly job. If you need pics or anything leave me a

 message

 

 -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in &quot;09 Q/B Kit -

 wiring and FWF

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 32536#232536

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: Filtered Air Box - Copy of DLM post of 1/10/08

dlm46007(at)cox.net



Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Air box and alternate air door   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just pulled the cowl for first 100 hours inspection. Found the galvanized ring (VA192A) of the alternate air door partially pulled from the bottom of the air box. the rivets had pulled through the glass and the nut plate for the door pivot was holding it there. To fix this I fabricated an aluminum ring for the inside and match drilled the ring and galvanized ring. I cleaned the bottom with a scotchbrite pad and grinder and put two additional layers of glass on the bottom. I will epoxy putty the VA192A and the fabricated ring to the box and rivet (1097s) after cure. I will then add small dabs of RTV on the rivet buck tails on the inside to ensure that even if a rivet breaks, nothing will enter the injection system. 

[quote][b]

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

No one seems to enjoy making the air inlet nozzle on the lower cowl. I used a different method that was easier and resulted in a very smooth transition to the air box.



Instead of carving a hole in the foam with a hacksaw and trying to create a smooth contour, I reversed the process. I cut a piece of foam thick enough to fill the gap from the back of the existing cowl inlet to the front of the air box. Reach through the cowl inlet and press the foam into the air box, so that the air box leaves an indentation in the aft side of the foam. While holding the foam in this position, hot glue the forward side of the foam to the cowl inlet. Remove the cowl, being careful not to knock the foam loose. It is now very easy to shape the foam to the indentation on the aft side of the foam and the existing cowl inlet on the fore side. Lay up the fiberglass on the outside of the foam plug and you will have a perfect contour from the cowl to the air box. No messing around with trying to lay glass inside a female form. No messing with balloons. When the glass is cured carve out the foam, and you will have an interior surface that needs very little cleaning up.



Jim Berry

40482

N15JB

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB fitting

Any suggestions on fitting the baffle seal between the FAB & the inlet?

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

I thought this was going to be a chore, but it turned out not to be. I have a 1/2" gap between the aft edge of the inlet and the forward edge of the FAB, so I made the baffle strips 1" wide. Installed them so they were in plane with the top, sides and bottom of the FAB. The material is flexible enough that it adjusts to any minor misalignment. It may have been pure luck, but it worked out well.



Jim Berry

40482

N15JB

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

I may get flamed for this, but I have seen this done and tried it  

myself and it works great and saves a bunch of work, as well as making  

the cowl easier to get on/off.  Spruce sells rolls of rubber baffle  

seal that is thicker and stiffer than the Van's supplied material.   

This seal material can cover a 1"+ gap from the FAB to the cowl inlet  

and the cowl can remain as it comes from Van's.  I will look for some  

pictures, but I don't think I have any close at hand.



do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:38 PM, AirMike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Any suggestions on fitting the baffle seal between the FAB & the  

 inlet?



 --------

 OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in &quot;09

 Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 33230#233230

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

No reason to flame Jesse, I've seen quite a few FAB to cowl inlets without any seal...I think a good stiff seal mounted on the FAB and cut to fit up close on the non-tubed inlet is a great idea. Its not like the air won't flow right into the FAB...of course it only applies to non cold air induction ala Deems and other "Hotrods".  



Rick S 

40185

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

I'm not sure if this will work for the FAB to Cowl, but here's how we 

did on on the Will James cowl.



http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07042.html



It's a simple piece of neoprene, that is glued into a cylinder glue, and 

then clamped to the cowl inlet. This is the process used for connecting 

the cooling intakes for the James cowl as well.



Deems Davis # 406

DAR is showing up on Fri!!!!!

http://deemsrv10.com/



Jesse Saint wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I may get flamed for this, but I have seen this done and tried it 

 myself and it works great and saves a bunch of work, as well as making 

 the cowl easier to get on/off.  Spruce sells rolls of rubber baffle 

 seal that is thicker and stiffer than the Van's supplied material.  

 This seal material can cover a 1"+ gap from the FAB to the cowl inlet 

 and the cowl can remain as it comes from Van's.  I will look for some 

 pictures, but I don't think I have any close at hand.

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

No flames intended but a lot of information exists to supporting its reduction.  Look for Fred Moreno's five part series "Homebuilt Aircraft Drag Reduction = January 2009.  Part One is a pdf file of 1.06 mb.  Pages 13,14 &15 address the consequences of casual cooling air & leakage air flows, baffle material, plenums,etc.  Ideal case = no leaks. Interesting counter point.

  

 Mike, contact me off list.  Not interested in flaming, jousting or tying up Matt's wonderful list or I would have attached it.

  



  John Cox



 

  From: AirMike

Sent: Wed 3/4/2009 2:38 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV10-List: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>  Any suggestions on fitting the baffle seal between the FAB & the inlet?  -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in &quot;09 Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF     Read this topic online here:  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233230#233230

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

Fred's other four parts were



Two - Reduced cooling leakage/drag for already flying aircraft

Three - Reduced airframe drag for already flying aircraft

Four - Advanced methods for reducing cooling drag in aircraft still under construction.

Five - Advanced methods for reducing airframe drag in aircraft still under construction.



See you at Osh '09



John



From: AirMike

Sent: Wed 3/4/2009 2:38 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....




Any suggestions on fitting the baffle seal between the FAB & the inlet?



--------

OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in &quot;09

Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233230#233230

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: Filter Bypass Door Install

My airbox pretty much follows the plans wrt to the location of retainers and filter. After drilling holes and test fitting, it's obvious that the control cable nutplate that holds the adel clamp interferes with the air filter. It would be smack dab in the middle of the filter.



The cable pulls the VA-192B plate OPEN, right? If so, the nutplate can't be moved inboard. It would have to be moved out further which would cause it to be close to the curve of the airbox... and the cable would then rub against the fiberglass. 



What have others done? Maybe ditch the nutplate/adel clamp and glass in a tube?



Thank goodness I don't have a carb as the door fab doesn't look fun at all!



Cheers,

Jay

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

I can't remember very well, but I did just look at mine,

and I think my adel clamp is out towards the outer rear edge

on the bottom.  I agree with you...for a variety of reasons

I'm glad I have fuel injection, one of which being that

I really am glad I just had the one alternate air door to

make.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

jayb wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 My airbox pretty much follows the plans wrt to the location of

 retainers and filter. After drilling holes and test fitting, it's

 obvious that the control cable nutplate that holds the adel clamp

 interferes with the air filter. It would be smack dab in the middle

 of the filter.

 

 The cable pulls the VA-192B plate OPEN, right? If so, the nutplate

 can't be moved inboard. It would have to be moved out further which

 would cause it to be close to the curve of the airbox... and the

 cable would then rub against the fiberglass.

 

 What have others done? Maybe ditch the nutplate/adel clamp and glass

 in a tube?

 

 Thank goodness I don't have a carb as the door fab doesn't look fun

 at all!

 

 Cheers, Jay

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 45405#245405

AprilZer

Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 1

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC.....

I got some information that I really need here in this discussion.,I am so relief that I found this site.

_________________

Aprilaire

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