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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: gear weight

Deke,

  It just so happens that I weighed my original gear yesterday as I am getting ready to sell it on EBAY and need to find out what the shipping will be to put in my auction.

  The gear legs weighed 16 lbs for the pair and the "Kingfox "tires,wheels,Matco brakes and axles weighed roughly 18 lbs each (not selling those). So we have a total of 52 lbs plus maybe 1/2 lb of bolts for the standard gear. That will give you a ball park figure for your curiosity.

                                                    Dick Maddux

                                                    Fox 4

                                                    Pensacola,Fl

 Need a job? Find employment help in your area.

  [quote][b]

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: gear weight

Thanks.  I think there was more than one type of gear sold by Grove  for the Kitfox and I'm finding out that the S5 gear was much different than the  IV.  Mine is one continuous gear that is about a 1.25" thick on the cross  piece under the belly and it's also significantly taller than the IV gear.   Not two pieces.  Also, I have all Cleveland wheel hardware.  After  having looked at a IV gear recently, mine is noticeably heavier looking and also  by the scales.  Gross weight of the 5 is 1550lbs which, I assume, requires  a larger and heavier gear.  It came with the airplane package so I was  stuck with it.  If I'd had any idea before the purchase how heavy it was  I'd have gone with the tube gear.  One thing I can attest to though is that  it will definitely soak up some bad landings so I'm not in any rush to change it  just to save a few lbs.

 Lowell's gear looks to be the perfect setup for the rough ground that mine  is subjected to about 90 percent of the time.  I don't recall anyone saying  what Lowells' gear weighs, all-up complete with fairings.  Anybody  know?  Lowell?

 Deke

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: gear weight

Deke-

I got curious about the weight of my Grove gear...model IV  

'fox....and went to their site....24.3 lbs for the 3 and 4, 34.3 lbs  

for the 5,6, and 7. Calc out the old tube gear and the weight gain is  

minimal on the 3 and 4. Can't say about the 5,6, and 7, because I  

don't have the old stuff to heft/weigh. When I was building mine, and  

learning to fly at the same time, I saw (in Grove) a wider gear and  

stronger, and didn't give it a second thought, because I knew  

eventually I'd make a bad landing....and that didn't take long! : )

Given Dick's post of 16 lbs for the old tubes, I gained 8.3 lbs for  

the added insurance of a wider, stronger gear, and I'll pay that  

weight penalty any day.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Mar 7, 2009, at 12:11 PM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] Thanks.  I think there was more than one type of gear sold by Grove  

 for the Kitfox and I'm finding out that the S5 gear was much  

 different than the IV.  Mine is one continuous gear that is about a  

 1.25" thick on the cross piece under the belly and it's also  

 significantly taller than the IV gear.  Not two pieces.  Also, I  

 have all Cleveland wheel hardware.  After having looked at a IV  

 gear recently, mine is noticeably heavier looking and also by the  

 scales.  Gross weight of the 5 is 1550lbs which, I assume, requires  

 a larger and heavier gear.  It came with the airplane package so I  

 was stuck with it.  If I'd had any idea before the purchase how  

 heavy it was I'd have gone with the tube gear.  One thing I can  

 attest to though is that it will definitely soak up some bad  

 landings so I'm not in any rush to change it just to save a few lbs.

 Lowell's gear looks to be the perfect setup for the rough ground  

 that mine is subjected to about 90 percent of the time.  I don't  

 recall anyone saying what Lowells' gear weighs, all-up complete  

 with fairings.  Anybody know?  Lowell?

 Deke

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

lkc(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: gear weight

Deke... I have the same setup as you including engine... I've been learning to fly in the Series5 and had the left tube gear break.  Mine now has the grove gear on and I'm a happy camper again.  The gear weighs more but I found a way to drop another 25 lbs of flying weight.  The pilot now weighs 140 lbs and will probably live to fly many years longer.  How much time do we spend trying to save 10 lbs of aircraft weight when we can just quit stuffing our face.   Layne   



____________________________________________________________ 

[url=_blank]Criminal Lawyers - Click here.[/url]

  [quote][b]

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: gear weight

I don't know if I totally agree with the numbers.



My set of original gear (powder coated) weighs 7 lbs 15 ounces (4 lbs. and 3 

lbs. 15 oz).  The bungees weigh exactly a pound - just weighed them.  The 

(drilled) axles and axle nuts weigh 1 lb. 5 oz..   Mounting hardware comes 

in at 3 oz.



Bungee gear total  10 lbs. 7 oz.  Unfaired, powdercoated



Dick's bungee gear had fairings which likely explains the 16 lbs. he 

measured.

The cabane gear sent to Dick came in at 17 lbs 2 oz.  (bare metal) without 

the fairings.  The fairings  added 1 lb. 13 oz with attaching screws (bare 

metal as well) . Using the same  axles,  weight 1 lb 5 oz. and the attaching 

hardware 7 oz.



Cabane Gear total  19 lbs. 11 oz.   bare metal



The Grove gear is advertised as weighing 24 lbs 3 oz.  But again, this is 

one of the frustrating things when searching companies web sites.  In an 

exchange of e-mails from Grove on this subject the following is what I

received from them last July.



"Lowell



The gear weighs approx 24.3 lbs, I just weighed the brackets, mounting

 hardware, and axles. this is an additional 6.5 lbs.

 The price of the kit is $1590.00 which includes:



Gear

 gun drilled brake lines

 brackets

 mounting hardware and instructions

 axles

 axle hardware.

 The kit is complete, you will have all that you need to install the gear

 using your existing wheels."



Grove total weight  30.5 lbs. (30 lbs 8oz.)  Bare metal



All these gear sets are identical in configuration except for the bungee 

gear being powder coated and the other two types will have varying amounts 

of paint, probably not to exceed 3 or 4 ounces, I would guess.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL

working on the elevator gap cuffs



---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: gear weight

Here, here!  I'd like to shed about 5-15 lbs. of pilot weight, too,  

Layne....make the plane a lot safer if it was made lighter that way. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Mar 7, 2009, at 11:57 PM, lkc(at)juno.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Deke... I have the same setup as you including engine... I've been  

 learning to fly in the Series5 and had the left tube gear break.   

 Mine now has the grove gear on and I'm a happy camper again.  The  

 gear weighs more but I found a way to drop another 25 lbs of flying  

 weight.  The pilot now weighs 140 lbs and will probably live to fly  

 many years longer.  How much time do we spend trying to save 10 lbs  

 of aircraft weight when we can just quit stuffing our face.   Layne



 ____________________________________________________________

 Criminal Lawyers - Click here.

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:48 am Post subject: gear weight

You're probably right about the Grove advertised weight, Lowell. I  

looked at their site and they only state the weight of the "gear" not  

the mounting brackets. I should have weighed mine before  

installation, but did not. I figured what I installed, I installed,  

and wasn't going to quibble about the weight when the important  

thing...to me...was to improve a narrow tread-width, possibly  

squirrelly, landing gear with a wider, lower (I think) gear which, I  

was told on this forum, was better suited for a beginner to learn on.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Mar 8, 2009, at 1:36 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:



[quote] 

 <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>



 I don't know if I totally agree with the numbers.



 My set of original gear (powder coated) weighs 7 lbs 15 ounces (4  

 lbs. and 3 lbs. 15 oz).  The bungees weigh exactly a pound - just  

 weighed them.  The (drilled) axles and axle nuts weigh 1 lb. 5  

 oz..   Mounting hardware comes in at 3 oz.



 Bungee gear total  10 lbs. 7 oz.  Unfaired, powdercoated



 Dick's bungee gear had fairings which likely explains the 16 lbs.  

 he measured.

 The cabane gear sent to Dick came in at 17 lbs 2 oz.  (bare metal)  

 without the fairings.  The fairings  added 1 lb. 13 oz with  

 attaching screws (bare metal as well) . Using the same  axles,   

 weight 1 lb 5 oz. and the attaching hardware 7 oz.



 Cabane Gear total  19 lbs. 11 oz.   bare metal



 The Grove gear is advertised as weighing 24 lbs 3 oz.  But again,  

 this is one of the frustrating things when searching companies web  

 sites.  In an exchange of e-mails from Grove on this subject the  

 following is what I

 received from them last July.



 "Lowell



 The gear weighs approx 24.3 lbs, I just weighed the brackets, mounting

 hardware, and axles. this is an additional 6.5 lbs.

 The price of the kit is $1590.00 which includes:



 Gear

 gun drilled brake lines

 brackets

 mounting hardware and instructions

 axles

 axle hardware.

 The kit is complete, you will have all that you need to install the  

 gear

 using your existing wheels."



 Grove total weight  30.5 lbs. (30 lbs 8oz.)  Bare metal



 All these gear sets are identical in configuration except for the  

 bungee gear being powder coated and the other two types will have  

 varying amounts of paint, probably not to exceed 3 or 4 ounces, I  

 would guess.



 Lowell Fitt

 Cameron Park, CA

 Model IV-1200 R-912 UL

 working on the elevator gap cuffs



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:21 am Post subject: gear weight

Deke,

  I just realized I made an error. The stock gear legs with plastic fairings weighed aprox 13 1/2 lbs not 16. I was trying to go from memory but I had it written down. Lets just say for round numbers Lowells gear is about 4lbs lighter, close enough.

                                                        Dick Maddux

                                                        Pensacola,Fl

                                                              

 Need a job? Find employment help in your area.

  [quote][b]

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:21 am Post subject: gear weight

Deke,

   Lowells gear weighs 9 lbs with the fairings (about 4 lbs less than the original gear legs with fairings) Lets say it is 10 lbs with paint and incidentals. Now this does not include the wheels,brakes and axles of course just the gear legs,cabane ,springs,bolts and fairings.

                                                                 Dick Maddux

                                                                 Pensacola,Fl

 Need a job? Find employment help in your area.

  [quote][b]

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: gear weight

Good point, Layne.  I think most of us  could easily drop 10 or 20 lbs.  Some much more.  Up here in NE  MI,  the winter days can be long, cold, and often, when the weather is  rotten, not much else to do but eat.  I generally put on about 10 over  the winter then lose it by middle of June.  Same old story, different  year.

 Deke

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:03 am Post subject: gear weight

Lynn, I've learned in the experimental world to not put too much stock in 

what is advertised by vendors.  Also, I've often wondered about my gear 

whether it is actually a Grove gear.  The weight doesn't match what they 

advertise, it's taller than what I've seen on other Kitfoxes, it's a 

slightly different shape, and it's a single piece.  It came with the package 

straight from Skystar.  Does anybody know if Skystar sold an aluminum gear 

that was NOT made by Grove?  Inquiring minds would like to know.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: gear weight

Nice.  If I ever prang my gear (hopefully never) it's pretty obvious I  would go with Lowell's gear.  Mine works fine though as is, so other than  to save weight, there is no reason at this time to change anything.

 Deke

 do not archive

  

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: gear weight

Deke, if you go to the Grove site, I think they say your 5 gear (if  

it really IS a Grove) is 1" thick, while my IV is 7/8" thick. Of  

course your 1.25" gear could still be a Grove, but of an earlier  

"batch" or design.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Mar 8, 2009, at 10:03 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] 

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Lynn, I've learned in the experimental world to not put too much  

 stock in what is advertised by vendors.  Also, I've often wondered  

 about my gear whether it is actually a Grove gear.  The weight  

 doesn't match what they advertise, it's taller than what I've seen  

 on other Kitfoxes, it's a slightly different shape, and it's a  

 single piece.  It came with the package straight from Skystar.   

 Does anybody know if Skystar sold an aluminum gear that was NOT  

 made by Grove?  Inquiring minds would like to know.

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

 "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  

 progress."

 - Joseph Joubert



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

vadert(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: gear weight

Deke

  6nbsp;

 There was a company called Hammerhead 6nbsp; Aviation that competed directly against Grove and built aluminum gear for Kitfoxes E  6nbsp;I was looking at it for 6nbsp;my IV when they and Grove were having a price war E That was 6nbsp;when they went out of business E

  6nbsp;

 Tim Vader

 Kitfox IV

 GPASC 2276

 Repairing



---

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:49 am Post subject: gear weight

Deke,

Maybe I live a sheltered life, but all the ktifox Grove gear I have ever

seen is one piece.  (??)  My first one came from Skystar and then I bent it

and got another from Grove.  (Yeah, it is possible to bend it, but I had to

work at it!)  They have changed alloy so they are making changes all the

time.  I think also part of the uncertainty comes from different gear for

the IV or the 5/6/7.



Randy



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: gear weight

Hmmm.  I could swear that Lynn, or one of the other responders said their 

Grove gear (IV) was in two pieces.  Maybe I misunderstood.  Nothing new.

Deke

do not archive



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: gear weight

I remember Hammerhead and it was too bad they went  out of business.  Competition is good for the sport.   I  think their gear was pretty much a carbon copy of Grove, or at least what I saw  seemed to be.  Like I said, mine is different.  The legs are thicker,  yet narrower and taller than the Grove gear I see on other airplanes.   

 Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:28 am Post subject: gear weight

If it was carbon it must have been lighter then  aluminum, my legs is shorter I need to sit closer to the pedals.

 I just woke up, I need coffee 

  

 Jan

 [quote]   ---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: gear weight

My mistake for poor use of cliché terms.   Maybe, "close copy" would have worked better?

 Deke

 do not archive

  

 [quote]   ---

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: gear weight

It was no critic, just playing with  words.

 Lucky we are not German, they don't even have a  name for humor.

 do not archive

  

 Jan

 [quote]   ---

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