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Fuel overflow at startup

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Jim Feldmann

Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Burbank, CA

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: Fuel overflow at startup

My 912 now runs very well at idle and throughout the rpm range, but it shakes violently for a second or so at startup.  This causes fuel to be ejected from the vent tubes of the carburetors.  



I set the throttle at idle and use the starting carbs (choke) to start when cold, and just advance the throttle a little when hot.  The shaking happens either way, but is worse when cold.  Is there a better starting technique?



I have seen recommendations to run the carb vent tubes into the aircleaners.  This might solve the problem of fuel being thrown around the engine compartment, but I am concerned about the effect of throwing the excess gas into the carb throats and/or washing the oil out of the aircleaners.



Is this a normal condition?  Has anyone been able to solve it?

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_________________
Jim Feldmann
Kitfox IV Speedster / 912 lost to prop failure
Building a Kitfox 5 Voyager

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: Fuel overflow at startup

Hi Jim C

  

 Check back on the threads on this list.  My startup procedure will stop all that.

  

 Clint

  

 Model IV 1400 plus hours

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Fuel overflow at startup

 From: feldesign(at)earthlink.net

 Date: Tue C 17 Mar 2009 10:08:04 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jim Feldmann" <feldesign(at)earthlink.net>

 

 My 912 now runs very well at idle and throughout the rpm range C but it shakes violently for a second or so at startup. This causes fuel to be ejected from the vent tubes of the carburetors. 

 

 I set the throttle at idle and use the starting carbs (choke) to start when cold C and just advance the throttle a little when hot. The shaking happens either way C but is worse when cold. Is there a better starting technique?

 

 I have seen recommendations to run the carb vent tubes into the aircleaners. This might solve the problem of fuel being thrown around the engine compartment C but I am concerned about the effect of throwing the excess gas into the carb throats and/or washing the oil out of the aircleaners.

 

 Is this a normal condition? Has anyone been able to solve it?

 

 --------

 Jim Feldmann C 3rd owner

 1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912

 Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234993#234993

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

&gt=======================
	


&g=======

[quote] 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

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pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: Fuel overflow at startup

I have been on this list for a long time and your condition will not 

be fixed with rerouting the vent and may even be the wrong thing to 

do. You must fix the shake. The archives are full if suggestions 

involving lots of trouble shooting. Like check spark, carb balance, 

less fuel in one carb, and on & on.

Paul

=========

At 09:08 AM 3/17/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



My 912 now runs very well at idle and throughout the rpm range, but 

it shakes violently for a second or so at startup.  This causes fuel 

to be ejected from the vent tubes of the carburetors.



I set the throttle at idle and use the starting carbs (choke) to 

start when cold, and just advance the throttle a little when 

hot.  The shaking happens either way, but is worse when cold.  Is 

there a better starting technique?



I have seen recommendations to run the carb vent tubes into the 

aircleaners.  This might solve the problem of fuel being thrown 

around the engine compartment, but I am concerned about the effect 

of throwing the excess gas into the carb throats and/or washing the 

oil out of the aircleaners.



Is this a normal condition?  Has anyone been able to solve it?



--------

Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner

1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912

Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 34993#234993

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peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: Fuel overflow at startup

Clint, I would be interested in your starting  procedure and I did a search and did not find it except where you refer to it  without details.

  

 Pete

 III 912 Grove

 [quote]   ---

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_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

Jim Feldmann

Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Burbank, CA

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Fuel overflow at startup

Clint:  I found your discription and tried it.  It did seem to make the start easier and smoother.  Thank you.



Pete:  Here is a copy of Clint's latest version:

[i]Hi All, I know that a lot of you have been using my start up procedures. It has worked for me a long time. I have worked out a lot beter sytem that has been in use by me for over 80 hours and it's great. Very similar to old one. 1) Ignition off 2) Throttle closed 3) Pull choke and crank engine for 3 or 4 seconds 4) Ignition on/ Open throttle 1 1/4 turns / Keep choke pulled and crank engine 5) Release choke after engine starts and warm up 3000 RPM's or so This system works very well, and the holding the choke does a little and stops false starts which happen on occasion.[/i]



I also spoke to Dean Vogel at Lockwood and he recommended the Soft Start Module from Bullyhawk.com

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_________________
Jim Feldmann
Kitfox IV Speedster / 912 lost to prop failure
Building a Kitfox 5 Voyager

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Fuel overflow at startup

Here is part of my check list.  You can use as much as 10 sec of  choke (not really C enrichment) on cold mornings. 

  

  

  

Before Starting Engine  Exterior Preflight COMPLETE 
Seat C Belts C Shoulder Harnesses-Adjust and LOCK. 
Fuel Shutoff Valve- On<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 
All switches. Breakers and avionics switch off 
Fuel Selector valve in the on position 
Cold Start
   Throttle at idle 
Ignition Switch A & B in off position 
Pull choke while engaging starter for 5 seconds 
Turn veneer throttle cw 1 ¼ turns and wait 60 seconds 
Ignition A & B on 
Engage starter (Engine should start immediately then reduce 

       engine rpm’s to 2500 for warm up).   If engine starts shaking C 

       turn Ign A & B off immediately C wait 60 seconds and go to 3. 

      (Cold Start) 

h.   Check oil pressure C minimum 30 psi 15 seconds 

   Hot Start 

    Engine has been running and has been shut down for less then 

20 minutes   Throttle at idle 
Turn veneer throttle cw 1 ¼ turns 
Ignition A & B on 
Engage starter (Engine should start immediately then reduce Engine 

      rpm’s to idle C ( 1500 and above).  If engine starts shaking turn Ign  

      A & B off immediately C wait 60 seconds and go to 3. (Cold Start) 

  

 

  From: apeterchristensen(at)sbcglobal.net

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Fuel overflow at startup

Date: Wed C 18 Mar 2009 18:45:03 -0600



  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}   Clint C I would be interested in your starting procedure and I did a search and did not find it except where you refer to it without details.

  

 Pete

 III 912 Grove

 [quote] ---

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