Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Off list

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Off list - Hirth reputation.

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 

Date sent:      	Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:34:18 -0400

To:             	<jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

From:           	possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject:        	Off list - Hirth reputation.

Send reply to:  	kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 	  Quote: 	
		   A lot of engines have the same problem.

 Just between you and me and the fence post--

 Screw Hirth engines. Bill has tried them several times

 over the last 12 years. Along with AMC engines and a few others.

 I've got way over what I should have on my 503 "1997 Rotax" engine without

 a rebuild and it still runs like a Toyota.

450 hrs on my Hirth without problems. Guess I didn't listen to the 

fence post.....

Jim Baker

580.788.2779

405. 426.5377 cell

Elmore City, OK

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

> 450 hrs on my Hirth without problems. Guess I didn't listen to the

 	  Quote: 	
		   fence post.....

 Jim Baker


	




That's great.



May be a record.



What airplane are you flying it with, Jim?  And which one is it?



I never got any where near that much time on one of my two strokes. 

Something would break or wear out, except the 582.  It didn't have time to 

wear out.  It simply seized.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation.

Its always possible to have good results with a bad engine, but that makes it an exception.   When choosing an engine, I would consider the record of the all of the engines of that make and model, not ONE...  I would never make an engine choice based on just one exceptional case.



That being said, I have seen from many sources the same as posted earlier, Hearth engines are horrible for reliability and don't last long.  I would never use one.  From what Jim reports ,his experience is very good, but that does not change the  MANY with bad experiences with Hirth engines.  Do your research before deciding on an engine for an airplane !



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 



 	  Quote: 	
		   When choosing an engine, I would

 consider the record of the all of the engines of that make and

 model, not ONE.


	


..and a great deal of grief can be heard from Rotax, Lycoming, 

Continental, AMW, MZ, VW, , etc....Very seldom do we routinely and 

continually hear about the successes, just the failures. "Hey, didja 

hear that so-and-so made an entirely uneventful flight?"



 	  Quote: 	
		   That being said, I have seen from many sources the same as posted

 earlier, Hearth engines are horrible for reliability and don't

 last long


	


I've also heard that Hearth engines suck..... ; )



.  I would never use one.  From what Jim reports ,his

 	  Quote: 	
		   experience is very good, but that does not change the  MANY with

 bad experiences with Hirth engines.  Do your research before

 deciding on an engine for an airplane ! 


	


Absolutely, do your research. Consider the source, talk to owners, 

don't just listen to detractors, get facts......

That said, I'm not an advocate for or against Hirth. All I know is 

that my engine, appparently the only known success story for this 

marque, has served me well, without problems. Were it not for Hirth 

(or at least my model of Hirth), I'd most likely have a Rotax. Are 

Hirth without problems? Nope. The 2706 was a problematic engine that 

had several vices, none of them forgiving. Are there bad Hirth 

engines? Some of the reputation is undeserved because Jim Bede 

ordered a boat load of short block Hirth engines (without intake, 

carbs, or exhaust) for the BD-5 and when that didn't pan out, 

untested and incomplete engines were dumped on the market. Some can 

still be obtained. Cobbled up two stroke engines, particularly with 

unknown lineage exhaust systems, aren't pretty. 



On the other side of this equation are owners, some of whom should 

never own two stroke engines. They don't understand them, aren't 

willing to learn how to make them happy, treat them like four 

strokes, and just generally cause havoc through ignorance. As the 

Bard once said,



Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to 

heaven.



On that note......



Jim Baker

580.788.2779

405. 426.5377 cell

Elmore City, OK

sky-king(at)inbox.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

I flew ultra lites for a lot of years with Cyuna engines,two engine outs,one right after take-off,If not for my first flight instructor beating in my head emergency procedures,it could have been a nasty outcome.All engine outs were from cold seizure,The Hirth engine is suppost to be immune.As for longevity only time will tell. 



[quote] --

beauford

Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Brandon, FL

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

..well said, sir...  but I betcha when knowledge straps in and cranks up for that

particular leg, it won't be behind a Rotax OR a Hirth 2 stroke.... 



beauford, 

FF-076

Do Not Archive

---

sky-king(at)inbox.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

...Maybe because of Rotax or Hirth ect...



[quote] --

N111KX (Kip)

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation.

While I have flown behind a Hirth for 15 minutes or so and, it ran fine, I'd hate to be a dealer that has to sell the "2000 hour TBO" I see in the ad's...

_________________
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

Mike and all,

Some time back I had much the same opinion as you regarding 

Hirths.  My wing man went down twice - the second rebuild they 

changed both the crank & the case.  That seemed to cure the problem.

Matt at Recreational Power Engineering has made a lot of progress 

with Hirth improving the quality of engine they turn out.  Last I new 

my friend has run it well over 400 hours and it's still going.  The 

new model engines  appear to be much more reliable.  There are some 

advantages of running their lower RPM, higher torque engine, not as 

noisy and better fuel economy.

jerb

At 05:08 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Its always possible to have good results with a bad engine, but that 

makes it an exception.   When choosing an engine, I would consider 

the record of the all of the engines of that make and model, not 

ONE...  I would never make an engine choice based on just one exceptional case.



That being said, I have seen from many sources the same as posted 

earlier, Hearth engines are horrible for reliability and don't last 

long.  I would never use one.  From what Jim reports ,his experience 

is very good, but that does not change the  MANY with bad 

experiences with Hirth engines.  Do your research before deciding on 

an engine for an airplane !



Mike



--------

&quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as 

you could have !!!



Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 35713#235713

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 



 	  Quote: 	
		  All engine outs were from cold seizure,The

 Hirth engine is suppost to be immune.


	


If there were a consensus about what precicely constituites a cold 

seizure, I might agree. As for immunity....perhaps better than an 

iron sleeved cylinder that grows at a rate lower than the piston's 

growth....but still subject to the vagaries of overly lean mixture 

and lubrication film failure.



Shoot, Rotax said it best in their literature......



"This engine, by its design, is subject to sudden stoppage."



Jim Baker

580.788.2779

405. 426.5377 cell

Elmore City, OK

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 



 	  Quote: 	
		   I'd hate to be a dealer that has to sell the "2000 hour TBO" I see in the ad's... [Rolling Eyes]


	


I'm more than a bit skeptical, as well. Examples of 1200-1500 hrs 

have been reported for other UL two stroke cranks, so perhaps the 

margins are reachable....



Jim Baker

580.788.2779

405. 426.5377 cell

Elmore City, OK

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: Off list - Hirth reputation.

In a message dated 3/22/2009 10:09:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  jlbaker(at)msbit.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Shoot, Rotax said it best in their literature......



"This    engine, by its design, is subject to sudden stoppage."

    	
              Jim,

  

           I think that  statement was made to cover their hind end. If something happens to a Rotax  you cant say they did not warn You!  I have been around Ultralights since  the early 80.s  I never met a happy Hirth owner!    As long  as they have been around they should get it right.  Hopefully the guy  that was flying at the New Kolb Homecoming is happy!  His Hirth sound ed  fairly good from the ground 

  

  

           Ed  Diebel    FF 62

 Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or less.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum