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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
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 Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10.
I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it.
The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be inconvenienced by aircraft availability he bought a second Stemme. Nice to be some people I guess.
Beautiful aircraft to fly, and a lot of fascinating engineering ideas went into it.
Paul
do not archive
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com (kheindl(at)msn.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Frans,
I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember, the trigear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly to get the sales. And that was before they had ironed the bugs out of the mono.
All the same, I am always amazed how strong especially the main legs are. There are always better solutions, but at the end of the day it doesn't really make any difference. The only perfect aircraft I have ever seen is the Stemme 10 motorglider, and maybe that applies to high performance gliders in general.
Karl do not archive
[b]
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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On Apr 18, 2009, at 6:47 AM, Paul McAllister wrote:
| Quote: | I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who has
had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10.
I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to
spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of
engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no
aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it.
|
Paul,
Never having heard of a Stemme 10, I went into cyberspace, viewed the
company website, and found this interesting article at:
http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/soaring
..a truly extraordinary flying machine...
After seeing the photos of the folding propeller however, my mind went
back in time to my proud and vain relationship w/ a '73 BMW 3.0 CS
coupe, a love/hate relationship within which I did years of hard time.
Though bought off the dealer's showroom, I developed a healthy
scepticism for vaunted German engineering...as BMW remains a viable
enterprise, I have no doubt that they have learned how to design,
build, and service an automobile.
Your pal w/ the 2 Stemmes has the right idea.
Fred
do not archive
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loboloda(at)execulink.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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Karl / Paul,
Wasn't it a Stemme with a 914 that had the in flight fire, and caused a re-think of the evans coolant ?
Karl, - any thought of coming down for the Canadian Aviation Expo in Hamilton on May 2 & 3 ?
Met up with Chris Staines and Jan Volcic in their monos today, we should all be there on the Saturday, but then it's just down the road for us.
Dave
On 18-Apr-09, at 9:47 AM, Paul McAllister wrote:
[quote]I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10.
I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it.
The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be inconvenienced by aircraft availability he bought a second Stemme. Nice to be some people I guess.
Beautiful aircraft to fly, and a lot of fascinating engineering ideas went into it.
Paul
do not archive
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com (kheindl(at)msn.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Frans,
I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember, the trigear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly to get the sales. And that was before they had ironed the bugs out of the mono.
All the same, I am always amazed how strong especially the main legs are. There are always better solutions, but at the end of the day it doesn't really make any difference. The only perfect aircraft I have ever seen is the Stemme 10 motorglider, and maybe that applies to high performance gliders in general.
Karl do not archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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Hey Fred C
I think you are jumping to conclusions again. What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering. I am no expert on BMW C but I did own one once when I lived in Libya. The local agency gave first class service and I don't remember any real problems.
Just couldn't help myself.
Karl
[quote] From: fklein(at)orcasonline.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment
Date: Sat C 18 Apr 2009 10:25:48 -0700
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
On Apr 18 C 2009 C at 6:47 AM C Paul McAllister wrote:
> I suppose this is getting bit off topic C but I was wondering who has
> had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10.
>
> I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to
> spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of
> engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no
> aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it.
Paul C
Never having heard of a Stemme 10 C I went into cyberspace C viewed the
company website C and found this interesting article at:
http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/soaring
...a truly extraordinary flying machine...
After seeing the photos of the folding propeller however C my mind went
back in time to my proud and vain relationship w/ a '73 BMW 3.0 CS
coupe C a love/hate relationship within which I did years of hard time.
Though bought off the dealer's showroom C I developed a healthy
scepticism for vaunted German engineering...as BMW remains a viable
enterprise C I have no doubt that they have learned how to design C
build C and service an automobile.
Your pal w/ the 2 Stemmes has the right idea.
Fred
do not archive
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner C and is
-========================
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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Dave C
I don't think I will be ready in early May. I am in the middle of a number of upgrades C and I need to then check it all out etc. I thought the Expo was in Oshawa in June ? That one would be doable.
Karl do not archive
From: loboloda(at)execulink.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment
Date: Sat C 18 Apr 2009 16:13:02 -0400
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Karl / Paul C
Wasn't it a Stemme with a 914 that had the in flight fire C and caused a re-think of the evans coolant ?
Karl C - any thought of coming down for the Canadian Aviation Expo in Hamilton on May 2 & 3 ?
Met up with Chris Staines and Jan Volcic in their monos today C we should all be there on the Saturday C but then it's just down the road for us.
Dave
On 18-Apr-09 C at 9:47 AM C Paul McAllister wrote:
[quote]I suppose this is getting bit off topic C but I was wondering who has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10.
I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it.
The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be inconvenienced by aircraft availability he bought a second Stemme. Nice to be some people I guess.
Beautiful aircraft to fly C and a lot of fascinating engineering ideas went into it.
Paul
do not archive
On Sat C Apr 18 C 2009 at 5:22 AM C Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com (kheindl(at)msn.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Frans C
I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember C the trigear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly to get the sales. And that was before they had ironed the bugs out of the mono.
All the same C I am always amazed how strong especially the main legs are. There are always better solutions C but at the end of the day it doesn't really make any difference. The only perfect aircraft I have ever seen is the Stemme 10 motorglider C and maybe that applies to high performance gliders in general.
Karl do not archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ronics.com
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ww.matronics.com/contribution
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loboloda(at)execulink.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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Karl,
No, it's been switched, Hamilton is a better location, and the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum is there.
i think the intent was that the Lancaster would be flying, but I read somewhere they were grounded as they need new constant speed props
$100,000 to fix ?
Dave
Do not archive
On 18-Apr-09, at 6:18 PM, Karl Heindl wrote:
| Quote: |
Dave,
I don't think I will be ready in early May. I am in the middle of a number of upgrades, and I need to then check it all out etc. I thought the Expo was in Oshawa in June ? That one would be doable.
Karl do not archive
From: loboloda(at)execulink.com (loboloda(at)execulink.com)
Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:13:02 -0400
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Karl / Paul,
Wasn't it a Stemme with a 914 that had the in flight fire, and caused a re-think of the evans coolant ?
Karl, - any thought of coming down for the Canadian Aviation Expo in Hamilton on May 2 & 3 ?
Met up with Chris Staines and Jan Volcic in their monos today, we should all be there on the Saturday, but then it's just down the road for us.
Dave
On 18-Apr-09, at 9:47 AM, Paul McAllister wrote:
| Quote: | I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10.
I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it.
The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be inconvenienced by aircraft availability he bought a second Stemme. Nice to be some people I guess.
Beautiful aircraft to fly, and a lot of fascinating engineering ideas went into it.
Paul
do not archive
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com (kheindl(at)msn.com)> wrote:
ww.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Karl Heindl wrote:
| Quote: | | What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering. |
Karl,
I make no connection between "Rotax on fire" and "german engineering"...my intention was to link what appeared to be an extraordinarily complex design for the Stemme's magically disappearing propeller with where it came from and who designed it. Paul had mentioned that his friend needed two of the ships in order to ensure that one was airworthy due, apparently, to required high levels of maintenance. I have no idea what is or are the sources for the high maintenance of the Stemme; but if that's what it takes to keep one flying, the engineering deserves some scrutiny, however elegant, innovative, or precise it may be. I certainly would agree that the Stemme is an extraordinarily beautiful aircraft...apparently without compromises in its design.
Having been called by my nickname, Fritz, for most of my life, I cast no aspersions on things Germanic, but I concluded over the 30 years that I kept my Bimmer that some of the vaunted german engineering was mythic...there's a reason we sometimes use the term, "over-engineered".
You wrote,
| Quote: | | I am no expert on BMW, but I did own one once when I lived in Libya. The local agency gave first class service and I don't remember any real problems. |
By any chance, did the agency supply a mechanic to ride in your back seat?...just kidding Karl...as I said, I have no doubt that BMW makes a fine automobile today, and has been for some time.
Cheers,
Fred (Fritz)
do not archive
-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. [quote][b]
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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Fred Klein wrote:
| Quote: |
On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Karl Heindl wrote:
> What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering.
Karl,
I make no connection between "Rotax on fire" and "german
engineering"...my intention was to link what appeared to be an
extraordinarily complex design for the Stemme's magically disappearing
propeller with where it came from and who designed it. Paul had
mentioned that his friend needed two of the ships in order to ensure
that one was airworthy due, apparently, to required high levels of
maintenance.
Fred (Fritz)
Fred
|
It's a taildragger and not many Americans are skilled at landing
taildraggers now, nor English if it comes to that. !52s are too easy to
fly so not good trainers. I had a Stemme S10 on an old flight sim,
wasn't half difficult to land it without busting a prop or knocking the
gear of it! 
Graham
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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Fred C
Just having some fun. We seldom get to hear the real reasons for various failures on any aircraft.
For example C it would be quite easy to condemn the Europa C if you picked on a few incidents.
The new A380's of Saudi Airlines are frequently grounded because of teething problems.
The folding/retracting propeller is actually a French patent. Apart from that C I don't know anything about the Stemme.
BTW C your BMW is a much sought after classis nowadays. You should have kept it.
Karl
From: fklein(at)orcasonline.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment
Date: Sat C 18 Apr 2009 16:14:24 -0700
On Apr 18 C 2009 C at 3:14 PM C Karl Heindl wrote:
| Quote: | | What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering. |
Karl C
I make no connection between "Rotax on fire" and "german engineering"..my intention was to link what appeared to be an extraordinarily complex design for the Stemme's magically disappearing propeller with where it came from and who designed it. Paul had mentioned that his friend needed two of the ships in order to ensure that one was airworthy due C apparently C to required high levels of maintenance. I have no idea what is or are the sources for the high maintenance of the Stemme; but if that's what it takes to keep one flying C the engineering deserves some scrutiny C however elegant C innovative C or precise it may be. I certainly would agree that the Stemme is an extraordinarily beautiful aircraft...apparently without compromises in its design.
Having been called by my nickname C Fritz C for most of my life C I cast no aspersions on things Germanic C but I concluded over the 30 years that I kept my Bimmer that some of the vaunted german engineering was mythic...there's a reason we sometimes use the term C "over-engineered".
You wrote C
| Quote: | | I am no expert on BMW C but I did own one once when I lived in Libya. The local agency gave first class service and I don't remember any real problems. |
By any chance C did the agency supply a mechanic to ride in your back seat?...just kidding Karl...as I said C I have no doubt that BMW makes a fine automobile today C and has been for some time.
Cheers C
Fred (Fritz)
do not archive
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ronics.com
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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On Apr 18, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Karl Heindl wrote:
| Quote: | BTW, your BMW is a much sought after classis nowadays.
|
Karl...yes, indeed it is, for its style but certainly not for its coachwork, and one of those seekers made an offer I couldn't refuse...for me, it was the time to move on. It got so that I couldn't park it in the city without returning to find business cards w/ cryptic messages under the windshield wiper. Besides it having been a somewhat limited edition, the major factor in its rarity is that they are absolute rust buckets; they were built w/ 100% recycled steel and someone neglected to realize that in the recycling process, all the zinc was leached out and not replaced...at least that's what Gunter, the lead service rep at the dealer told me. The ones you see today are monuments to the miracles of exotic epoxies, but I'll never forget the thrill of moving thru the gears on the 5 speed...oh yeah.
Fred
do not archive
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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Fred Klein wrote:
| Quote: | After seeing the photos of the folding propeller however, my mind went
back in time to my proud and vain relationship w/ a '73 BMW 3.0 CS
coupe, a love/hate relationship within which I did years of hard time.
Though bought off the dealer's showroom, I developed a healthy
scepticism for vaunted German engineering...
|
Not all Germans are equal.
Whereas BMW tended to be overly complex for those years, Mercedes tended
to be straight forward and robust. I owned a BWM, but not very long.
Swapped it for a Mercedes, and have since then been sold to the total
lack of maintenance issues. Have never had to replace anything else than
exaust, batteries, tires and brake pads, for 100.000's of Km's. Love old
timers, but hate maintenance.
My Mercedes is a 1975 3.0L diesel. Didn't do any maintenance on it since
I started building my Europa.
With the same color as the Europa, it makes an interesting combo if I
transport the Europa.
See picture. Cats love the good old Merc too. And yes, behind it you see
indeed my Europa ready for being towed to the weighing facility
--
Frans Veldman
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment |
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I do agree. Merc is a a good towing machine also for me but that is only because my BWW has not a towing knob ...and it is not a van!
I prefer van because I want to keep the tailplanes inside - not on the trailer (what a horrible idea to keep them on the trailer!).
Old Mercs are still mostly very robust (I have R107 450SL 1972 and today it started flawlessly after 6 months winter delay) but today BMW is only choise from German which makes sense (and only car brand which will survive through global financial low season without pains).
Raimo OH-XRT Finland
---
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