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mjpereira68(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

 	  Quote: 	
		   It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.

 There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the

 PRC.  I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop

 equipment, electronics) coming from there.  Dunno if I want

 my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming

 from such an environment.


	


*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery

was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are

still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age

tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for).  I'm

not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)

batteries.



Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough

that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few

generic crap china batteries and test them ?



Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a  manufacturing base

in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are

collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.



Anyone that knows me, knows I'm straining to not comment on the

Cuba comment.

nghertner(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

Yes, Decca battery in PA makes batteries and rapes the environment there. You can take the manufacture elsewhere!

---

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

With the exception of some intellectual property rights, the only way

you can create wealth is to take raw material A and labor B to produce

product C that has a higher value than A and B combined. Now when you

say, " You can take the manufacture elsewhere!", you're taking the

wealth creation with it. Soon you won't have a job. You don't want that,

do you? 



Bruce (A capitalist pig and proud of it)

WWW.Glasair.org 



--

nghertner(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

Take a drive thru Topton, PA and watch the sludge flowing. 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



--

dale.r(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

Michael Pereira wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Michael Pereira <mjpereira68(at)gmail.com> (mjpereira68(at)gmail.com)



        	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.

There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the

PRC.  I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shop

equipment, electronics) coming from there.  Dunno if I want

my electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery coming

from such an environment.

    	
   

*sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery

was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are

still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age

tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for).  I'm

not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)

batteries.

  	
 	
 

 Well, be prepare to be surprised.  The Odyssey batteries are manufactured 

 at the EnerSys plant in Warrensburg, Missouri.

 

 The battery in question - B.B. Battery - has right on their site that their 

 factory is in China.

 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough

that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few

generic crap china batteries and test them ?

  	
 	
 

 Okay, here's where we get down to values.  My dad always told me (didn't 

 your dad, too?) that cheap tools weren't worth what you pay for them.

 A battery isn't as good as its warranty, it's only as good as it's lack of 

 necessity for exercising the warranty. The cost of having a battery give 

 out prematurely can easily far exceed the cost of the battery itself.  

 Exercising the warranty can have non-reimbursable costs, too.  

 

 Is it worth testing the B.B. Battery?  Maybe ... but not to me - perhaps to 

 a dealer who's going to sell hundreds of them.  They'll want to know what 

 the odds are for having to handle returns.

 

 Dale R.

 COZY MkIV #0497 

 

 

 [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  

Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a  manufacturing base

in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are

collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.

  	
 [b]

bbradburry(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

Well there are a lot of angles to this discussion and everybody has their angle.  The BB batteries are made in China.  They make them from dirt.  By that I mean that the company supplies its own raw materials.  They may be low in quality, but it would not be because some supplier didn’t follow the company spec.  Odessy makes their batteries in Mo.  Where do they get their raw materials?  China?    

BB means Best and Best.  I don’t know how that translates into quality, but I have been using these batteries for 3 years now with no problem and as long as they are half the price of the Odessy and give me no problem, I will continue to use them.  I have discharged them down to zip a couple of times and they just charge back up and keep hanging in there.  

   

I don’t sell batteries, I just buy em.  Your mileage may vary  

   

Bill B   

  

       

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Rogers

 Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:40 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative  

Michael Pereira wrote:    	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Michael Pereira <mjpereira68(at)gmail.com>    	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue.There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from thePRC.  I've seen a lot of poor quality hardware (tools, shopequipment, electronics) coming from there.  Dunno if I wantmy electric-dependent airplane to rely on a battery comingfrom such an environment.    	
 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7  



 Well, be prepare to be surprised.  The Odyssey batteries are manufactured 

 at the EnerSys plant in Warrensburg,  Missouri.

 

 The battery in question - B.B. Battery - has right on their site that their 

 factory is in China.

 

 

 

    	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		    	
0 	  Quote: 	
		    	
1  



 Okay, here's where we get down to values.  My dad always told me (didn't 

 your dad, too?) that cheap tools weren't worth what you pay for them.

 A battery isn't as good as its warranty, it's only as good as it's lack of 

 necessity for exercising the warranty. The cost of having a battery give 

 out prematurely can easily far exceed the cost of the battery itself.  

 Exercising the warranty can have non-reimbursable costs, too.  

 

 Is it worth testing the B.B. Battery?  Maybe ... but not to me - perhaps to 

 a dealer who's going to sell hundreds of them.  They'll want to know what 

 the odds are for having to handle returns.

 

 Dale R.

 COZY MkIV #0497 

 

 

 

    	  Quote: 	
		    	
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5  

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6 	  Quote: 	
		    	
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9 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  It wasn't ~intended~ to be "political" - more of a QA issue. 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  There's been a lot of contaminated product coming from the 	
5

       [quote][b]

dale.r(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

Bill,



If they've given good service for you, so much to the good.

Pardon me if I wait a bit to see a broader track record before

I jump on the bandwagon. I don't base my purchased decisions

on just a lower purchase price.



Dale R.



Bill Bradburry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Well there are a lot of angles to this discussion and everybody has 

 their angle. The BB batteries are made in China. They make them from 

 dirt. By that I mean that the company supplies its own raw materials. 

 They may be low in quality, but it would not be because some supplier 

 didn’t follow the company spec. Odessy makes their batteries in Mo. 

 Where do they get their raw materials? China?



 BB means Best and Best. I don’t know how that translates into quality, 

 but I have been using these batteries for 3 years now with no problem 

 and as long as they are half the price of the Odessy and give me no 

 problem, I will continue to use them. I have discharged them down to 

 zip a couple of times and they just charge back up and keep hanging in 

 there.



 I don’t sell batteries, I just buy em. Your mileage may vary



 Bill B



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 Michael Pereira wrote:



 

  

 *sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery

 was made in china ? I'd be surprised if someone told me there are

 still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age

 tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for).  I'm

 not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)

 batteries.

   

 Well, be prepare to be surprised. The Odyssey batteries are manufactured

 at the EnerSys plant in Warrensburg, Missouri.



 The battery in question - B.B. Battery - has right on their site that 

 their

 factory is in China.



 Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough

 that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few

 generic crap china batteries and test them ?

   

 Okay, here's where we get down to values. My dad always told me (didn't

 your dad, too?) that cheap tools weren't worth what you pay for them.

 A battery isn't as good as its warranty, it's only as good as it's 

 lack of

 necessity for exercising the warranty. The cost of having a battery give

 out prematurely can easily far exceed the cost of the battery itself.

 Exercising the warranty can have non-reimbursable costs, too.



 Is it worth testing the B.B. Battery? Maybe ... but not to me - 

 perhaps to

 a dealer who's going to sell hundreds of them. They'll want to know what

 the odds are for having to handle returns.



 Dale R.

 COZY MkIV #0497

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 *sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery

 was made in china? 	


    Under most trade rules it has to say so on the outside

    of the product.



  	  Quote: 	
		   I'd be surprised if someone told me there are

 still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age

 tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for).  I'm

 not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)

 batteries.Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough

 that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few

 generic crap china batteries and test them ? 	


   There are many American manufacturers of all kinds of

   batteries . . . especially that arcane lead-acid technology

   And the EPA has a hard-on for everybody. It's how they

   keep their job and justify 75% of base pay retirement for life.



   Most noteworthy are Concorde, Hawker-Enersys (I've been

   through BOTH of these facilities),



  http://tinyurl.com/cp2bsv 



  http://tinyurl.com/ceuvca 



   and a host of smaller players like



  http://tinyurl.com/c8mty5 



  http://tinyurl.com/cru78p 



   . . . the complete list is quite long. Actually,

   lead-acid battery manufacturing is probably one of the

   most enviro-friendly secondary battery technologies.

   The materials are highly recyclable and the total

   energy to manufacture a lead-acid battery yields

   a better return on investment of most battery

   technologies.

  

   You can eat your lunch off about any surface

   in the Concorde or Hawker-Enersys plants without

   fear of consequences. Blood levels of lead for

   employees runs less than national average of

   lead from natural sources.



  	  Quote: 	
		  Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a  manufacturing base

 in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are

 collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.

 	
  Sort of . . . but not always the case. For example,

   had we mandated the US manufacture of all components

   necessary to fabricate a computer, we would not

   see deals like this . . .



  http://tinyurl.com/cxtmpl 



   The recipe for success in any endeavor is to be

   competitive with ALL other suppliers. When somebody

   whips yer sox off then it's time to get competitive

   or find a new activity where your investment of $time$,

   talent and resources have a better pay back. 



   Clinging to any facet of the flow of value between

   suppliers and consumers of an honorable free market

   is fraught with disappointment. Suppliers of

   floppy disks, CP/M operating systems, and core

   memory have most recently discovered this. 



 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

For a bunch of pilots, you guys are pretty deep.  I'm impressed.

 Your comments caused me to think - now my brain hurts today.

 Stan Sutterfield

 Do not archive

 A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

At 05:32 PM 4/19/2009, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		   For a bunch of pilots, you guys are pretty deep.  I'm impressed. 	


    If they were "just pilots" then these kinds 

    of conversation probably wouldn't be necessary.

    A discussion of options for TC aircraft seldom

    happens. However, as system integrators and designers

    who plan to pilot their work product, expanding

    the range and depth of such discussions is both

    useful and well advised.



 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

Normal Misconceptions...



Believe it or not we the EPA has rules in PA too. I've hauled batteries out of Decca plants in Allentown and Reading. They paid millions of dollars a year to deal with their waste issue. As far as resources there is nothing left to rape in PA. The old farts had their way years ago.



The batteries were taken to a plant in Hatfield, PA, cracked open, drained, acid filtered through water, pressed through sand and the effluent sent over to the sewer treatment plant so it could be setup for your drinking water. 



The lead and cores would be mixed in concrete, loaded onto dump trucks and then shipped to Michigan/Ohio landfills. There they sit. I've always thought of I-94 as a great place to put landfills and dump all of our crap.



Now you know the rest of the story.



Enjoy you're drinking water.



Glenn

--

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

A "bunch of pilots"?...We  haven't even gotton to the hows and whys of my Lycoming IO360 not having a  mechanical fuel pump yet..

  

 Frank RV7a

 Do not  archive



   From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Speedy11(at)aol.com

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:33  PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Odyssey Battery Alternative

 

   For a bunch of pilots, you guys are pretty deep.  I'm impressed.

 Your comments caused me to think - now my brain hurts today.

 Stan Sutterfield

 Do not archive



  A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See  yours in just 2 easy steps! 

[quote]



ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

mjpereira68(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

 	  Quote: 	
		   *sighs*. This begs a question. How exactly do you tell if a battery

 was made in china?



    Under most trade rules it has to say so on the outside

    of the product.


	


Ok, I had come to the conclusion this couldn't be relied on anymore.

Or in other words. Certain Honda cars have more North American content

than some of our domestic models. I guess it doesn't make economic

sense to produce the components of a lead-acid battery and assemble

them here.



 	  Quote: 	
		    I'd be surprised if someone told me there are

 still lead/acid battery manufacturers in the United States. It's stone-age

 tech that involves acid and lead (which the epa has a hard-on for).  I'm

 not talking about the megabuck carbon fiber (to save a few ounces)

 batteries.



 Are there American manufacturers ? If so, are any priced low enough

 that it would be cheaper money (and time) wise just to buy a few

 generic crap china batteries and test them ?



   There are many American manufacturers of all kinds of

   batteries . . . especially that arcane lead-acid technology

   And the EPA has a hard-on for everybody. It's how they

   keep their job and justify 75% of base pay retirement for life.



   Most noteworthy are Concorde, Hawker-Enersys (I've been

   through BOTH of these facilities),



 http://tinyurl.com/cp2bsv



 http://tinyurl.com/ceuvca



   and a host of smaller players like



 http://tinyurl.com/c8mty5



 http://tinyurl.com/cru78p



   . . . the complete list is quite long. Actually,

   lead-acid battery manufacturing is probably one of the

   most enviro-friendly secondary battery technologies.

   The materials are highly recyclable and the total

   energy to manufacture a lead-acid battery yields

   a better return on investment of most battery

   technologies.



   You can eat your lunch off about any surface

   in the Concorde or Hawker-Enersys plants without

   fear of consequences. Blood levels of lead for

   employees runs less than national average of

   lead from natural sources.



 Here's the off topic part. Our inability to maintain a  manufacturing base

 in this country is due to choices made by our government and we are

 collectively responsible because of the people we elect to represent us.



   Sort of . . . but not always the case. For example,

   had we mandated the US manufacture of all components

   necessary to fabricate a computer, we would not

   see deals like this . . .


	


Sorry, I tamed my original message down because I didn't want to anger

the 50 percent of the people on the other side of the political

spectrum from me too much. It lost meaning in the translation.



I don't have an issue with free trade. I do have issue with our

government creating conditions where the cost of doing business is so

much higher in this country that we lose entire industries offshore.

I've been educated in this thread and see that the clothing and

sneakers are a better example of that than lead acid batteries.



 	  Quote: 	
		   http://tinyurl.com/cxtmpl



   The recipe for success in any endeavor is to be

   competitive with ALL other suppliers. When somebody

   whips yer sox off then it's time to get competitive

   or find a new activity where your investment of $time$,

   talent and resources have a better pay back.



   Clinging to any facet of the flow of value between

   suppliers and consumers of an honorable free market

   is fraught with disappointment. Suppliers of

   floppy disks, CP/M operating systems, and core

   memory have most recently discovered this.


	


It's trivia but C/PM died because Gary Kildall blew off IBM when they

came looking for something to run the original IBM PC. They ended up

going to a middleman that bought the rights to an inferior (knock-off

of c/pm) operating system and did nothing more than *license* (instead

of sell) the rights to IBM.  This is probably the clearest example of

a good business idea being exponentially more profitable than hard

work in this world.



That guy was named Bill Gates. Gary's attitude made him poor and

provided Gates the starting capital for the business he used to create

his wealth.



I have no idea who originally wrote DOS, it won't really be dead until

the last computer running windows 98 finally dies and every embedded

device running it is replaced (BG will still be collecting license

fees for it for at least another decade).



c'ya,

Michael

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: Odyssey Battery Alternative

Tim Patterson, the then kid at the Retail Computer Store on Green Lake in

Seattle who assembled my first computer for me, a Sol 20, was who later

wrote the original DOS that became MS-DOS and IBM-DOS. He had a company

named Seattle Computer which was who Microsoft bought it from. I have heard

that it was a re-write of Kildal's C/PM, but I don't know that for sure. I

do remember that very similar commands had slightly different syntax in DOS

vs. C/PM. But then I have always been in over my head with computers, which

is why I had the Sol 20 kit assembled by the Retail Computer Store way back

when.



Terry

<snip>

I have no idea who originally wrote DOS, it won't really be dead until

the last computer running windows 98 finally dies and every embedded

device running it is replaced (BG will still be collecting license

fees for it for at least another decade).



c'ya,

Michael

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