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Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions to.

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jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions to.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 12:13:38AM -0400, JohnDRead(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Can some body tell me what a ZBAG is? Is it some foreign group who do not  

 like Zenith aircraft or what? 


	


The Zenith Builders Analysis Group is a group of concerned Zodiac builders,

owners, and pilots who banded together to commission an independent

engineering study of the Zodiac. It was formed in response to what was seen

at the time as Zenair's reluctance to do full engineering studies of the

Zodiac's structure, both static and dynamic.



I am a contributing member of ZBAG. I can assure you that I love my Zodiac,

and would like nothing more than to see the cloud over it removed - whatever

that takes.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

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_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions to.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:29:57AM -0400, JohnDRead(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The problem with zbaggers is that even though they have hired a

 "professional engineer" they still keep spouting hearsay and inuendo which

 is just clouding any issues that Zenith aircraft MAY or may not have. As I

 have said before, if you "know " so much about what is wrong with the 601

 why do you not design your own airplanes and leave Zenith aircraft to

 those of us who are comfortable with the designs of a person of the

 stature and experience of Chris Heintz.


	


Aw, cmon, John. The next thing you'll tell us is that the only reason Chris

Heintz does not take regular walks across Lake Geneva is because he doesn't

like having wet shoes!



Nobody's perfect. Not even Chris Heintz.



Until an explanation is found, everything is suspect. Even the aircraft's

design. Recognizing the facts is not hysteria. It's an essential component

of a calm, sober analysis of the problem and its resolution.



Until the facts can be explained, we'll continue to have to deal with the

fallout of 6 inflight breakups in 2 years. We don't have a choice in the

matter. We can't stick our heads...in the sand, no matter how much we wish

the problem will simply go away. It won't.



I'm not an aircraft designer. I'm a computer geek. I'm not going to presume

for a moment that aileron mass balances are the one and only answer. I'm not

qualified to make that call. However, when every aeronautical engineer I've

spoken with has said that cable tension alone is not sufficient to prevent

flutter, and when every bit of FAA guidance on the subject says that it's

not, I'm going to come to the conclusion that adding mass balances is a

Good Thing unless it's demonstrated conclusively to me that the Zodiac

design is not susceptible to it.



I don't know if that's the fix. That's why I, along with others, asked a

couple of engineers to look at the design and come up with recommendations.

I'm highly disappointed that there's a segment of the Zenith community that

has chosen to demonize those of us who saw a need for an independent look at

the design and put our own money where our mouths are, just as I'm

disappointed that ZBAG has chosen, so far, not to release the results that

it furnished to the NTSB. Neither action is helpful to the overall goal: to

make sure we have aircraft that are safe to fly throughout their entire

envelope.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions to.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:01:14PM -0400, JohnDRead(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was not intending to infer the Chris Heintz is  perfect either, no body

 is BUT he has a good record in aviation engineering.


	


Good? Yes. Infallible? No. However, there are folks acting as though he is.



 	  Quote: 	
		   While six planes having a problem in two year is  troublesome it is quite

 a low failure rate.


	


It's much higher than average, and high enough that it's caused folks

responsible for aviation safety to sit up and take notice. That's all that

matters.



 	  Quote: 	
		   So far the only common failure is  that something caused the wings to

 separate, now as has been pointed out there are several possible causes,

 pilot error; flying the aircraft outside design limits, showing off and

 over speeding or overloading the airframe. Inadequate construction.

 Inappropriate modifications, flutter, improper adjustment of control

 cables and so on.


	


However, there's at least one accident where the airplane was built in a

certified factory and not flown outside the aircraft's design limits. That

leaves other causes that are far less easy to handwave away.



 	  Quote: 	
		   The zbaggers are not an "official" group so why are  they not being

 transparent with the alleged information they have? Let's see the

 qualifications of those who claim to be doing structural analysis and

 verify their calculations.


	


I agree. I've been trying to get this to happen, so far without much

success.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

rpf(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions to.

 	  Quote: 	
		  However, there's at least one accident where the >airplane was built in a

certified factory and not flown outside the aircraft's >design limits. That

leaves other causes that are far less easy to handwave >away.


	




Jay,



I'm wondering how in the heck you can make this statement.  Do you know for 

sure that every hour put on that plane it was not flown outside the design 

limits?  It was never in rough tourbolence and never over controlled?  Did 

you personally witness that plane fly for the total hours it was flown?



Come on man,

Randy

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jimysymonds

Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 3

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions

It seems like it might if my foot was now at an angle to the pedal which is causing more pressure on the inside of my foot versus across the whole.

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Size 12 shoes

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