Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

582UL cooling system

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:08 am Post subject: 582UL cooling system

I've searched the all of the Rotax websites that I know about and can't find

good information on the care-and-feeding of my 582's cooling system, so I'm

hoping you guys can give me some pointers.



I haven't flown since November and want to get everything ready to go for

the season. First problem is my water temperature gauge which went

silly-buggers on the last few flights and I have bought an EIS which I will

be installing before flying.



Second problem is that I noticed leakage out of a lower radiator hose during

the winter. I had tested the coolant as good down to -20F before the freezes

set in. The plane is stored in a barn but it is not heated. I assume I could

have lost some coolant and need to fix the hose that leaked.



My real problem is that I have not worked on the cooling system yet. It's a

1990 582UL (grey head I think it is called) with a factory-supplied

radiator. I charged the battery and started the engine but did not want to

run it for long in case there is no/bad coolant.



Where do I start? I took off the pressure cap and there was coolant about 1"

down in the tube and the overflow bottle is 1/2 full. I really should drain

and fill (and "burp"? what's that?) the system but need to learn a LOT

first, either from you guys or a pointer to some good documentation.



Thanks in advance



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop

Wrightsville Pa

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: Re: 582UL cooling system

Bob, 



Use Dexcool or equivalent and only DISTILLED water .  Mine was good  -35 F  I just dumped out about 3/4s of  gallon the other day as my temps were continually running over 180 F to 190 F .  I replaced  it with  distilled water. Test flew it last night and temps were about 15 to 20 F  lower.I never did check it bout I would guess it only good until about  -5 f or so now.   Water will cool far better than antifreeze. You just have to replace it in the fall again. If yours is old is likely time to change it anyhow.  Check  hose as well.   



If you do not use distilled water and Dexcool or equiv. antifreeze Havoline another good one.  ( phosphate free )  you will likely see  you RV seals get taken out .  your RV oil bottle will fill with antifreeze and will purge out and turn into a creamy mixture and will start to penetrate your fire wall and you will see this mess on your floor board.  ASk me how i know   



Kitfoxes are pretty good with upright engine for bleeding air out. Some time is might  help to take of rad hose on left  side of engine by thermostat and fill it full , this will fill rad too.  Then put rest in at the Radcap.  Run till thermostat opens 135F  and re check once it safe to take cap off.



Dave

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: 582UL cooling system

At 06:05 AM 4/27/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I really should drain

and fill (and "burp"? what's that?) the system but need to learn a LOT

first, either from you guys or a pointer to some good documentation.


	


Bob,

         Actually there's not much to learn, as best as I can tell. 

Step one is to make sure your coolant is silicate and phosphate free. 

I use the Dex-cool, by Prestone. You sometimes have to dig through 

the fine print on the label to make sure it's OK.

         The only "trick" to filling a 582 is making sure you've got 

the air out. Obviously the fill point must be the highest point in 

the system, or there's no way you'll get the air out. Given that 

there should be a small (1/4" ID) hose coming out of the "top" of the 

head, and running to the fill cannister. (That is, the "highest" 

point.) This assuming your engine is mounted upright. Once you've 

filled the system you get to remove the hose from the head and 

carefully let out any air. Then replace it and shake the beejeezus 

out of the engine. Then carefully remove it and let out any air. Then 

replace it and run the engine for a few minutes, then let it sit for 

a few minutes, then carefully remove the coolant cap and then remove 

the head hose and let out any air. Then do a ground run and watch 

that the temperature goes up to the thermostat opening temperature, 

then drops about 5 degrees, and then continues to climb to something 

stable at less than 180F. If OK, go flying in the pattern to make 

sure everything's OK. If so, fly somewhere where the food is great 

and the wait staff curvaceous. (I wanted to say something else, but 

after all I AM a moderator.)

         One of these days I'm going to fabricate a trick little air 

vent to put in the head line to facilitate venting. My old Porsche 

924 had one and it was very convenient.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dwight purdy

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 85

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: 582UL cooling system

Bob

 You may not have to do anything to the leaking hose. I have a ea81 Subaru 

on a gyro that does that every winter if it gets cold enough. Never leaks 

the rest of year.



Dwight Purdy

Model II

---

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
dwight
model II

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: 582UL cooling system

I think it might be a while before I'm ready to fly all the way to one of

those curvaceous waitresses, but I do have a curvaceous co-pilot who is

anxious to "get it in the air" (no, I did not misspell that last word...)



There was a fair amount of green puddle under that radiator hose one day

during the winter, but the level under the cap and in the bottle stayed at

the top(?) I'm thinking the radiator leaked dry and am now hesitant to run

the engine for too long. Having run it just now for 2 minutes in 90 degree

sunshine the heads are hot and the tube by the cap is hot so I am assuming

there is circulation. The pipes to the radiator are cold, or as cold as they

can be on a mid-April 90 degree day.



The water temperature gauge is shot (swings full-scale back and forth) and

will be the next thing I replace but I wanted the engine and cooling system

working properly first before I start making changes.



I am thinking that I am not running it enough to open the thermostat and the

radiator is empty. Is that possible? Does filling a cold system through the

cap fill the radiator too? And how would I drain the system since the

coolant is at least 3 years old and I think it should be changed.



The hose coming out of the top of the engine is level with where it goes

into the copper tube below the cap so I think that if I level out the upward

stress-loop I won't need to take that hose off.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: 582UL cooling system

At 01:28 PM 4/27/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I think it might be a while before I'm ready to fly all the way to one of

 those curvaceous waitresses, but I do have a curvaceous co-pilot who is

 anxious to "get it in the air" (no, I did not misspell that last word...) 	


 Well, if you can do that in a Kitfox then you are a much better pilot than I am. 



  	  Quote: 	
		  I am thinking that I am not running it enough to open the thermostat and the

 radiator is empty. Is that possible? Does filling a cold system through the

 cap fill the radiator too? And how would I drain the system since the

 coolant is at least 3 years old and I think it should be changed. 	


 It should not be possible. Your thermostat should have some small holes near the top to allow air to bleed through as you fill. They also supposedly help damp the thermostat response. You probably could do to change the coolant. Simple remove a radiator hose, if your radiator is on the bottom like mine, and let the system drain. Unfortunately this leaves a bunch of coolant in the radiator. Ideally you'd pull the radiator and drain it as well.



 As an aside, two minutes of running will not get the thermostat open and will leave the radiator cold, fluid or not. Unfortunately I can't give you a time off the top of my head.



  	  Quote: 	
		  The hose coming out of the top of the engine is level with where it goes

 into the copper tube below the cap so I think that if I level out the upward

 stress-loop I won't need to take that hose off. 	


 OK, but make darn SURE there's no air in the head.



 Oh, and I would fix the temp gauge FIRST. You need it for debugging. If the thermostat's frozen you'll never know it until the head water temp is way over 180, which, I understand, is very bad for your rotary shaft seals.



 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting    [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: 582UL cooling system

Guy C Jeeez C don't start adding sex to this website! I already have a hard time breaking away and spend too much time in front of this computer.

 do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild 

 Rockford C IL

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Mon C 27 Apr 2009 09:12:02 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 From: bnn(at)nethere.com

 Subject: Re: 582UL cooling system

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

 At 06:05 AM 4/27/2009 C you wrote:

 >I really should drain

 >and fill (and "burp"? what's that?) the system but need to learn a LOT

 >first C either from you guys or a pointer to some good documentation.

 Bob C

 Actually there's not much to learn C as best as I can tell. 

 Step one is to make sure your coolant is silicate and phosphate free. 

 I use the Dex-cool C by Prestone. You sometimes have to dig through 

 the fine print on the label to make sure it's OK.

 The only "trick" to filling a 582 is making sure you've got 

 the air out. Obviously the fill point must be the highest point in 

 the system C or there's no way you'll get the air out. Given that 

 there should be a small (1/4" ID) hose coming out of the "top" of the 

 head C and running to the fill cannister. (That is C the "highest" 

 point.) This assuming your engine is mounted upright. Once you've 

 filled the system you get to remove the hose from the head and 

 carefully let out any air. Then replace it and shake the beejeezus 

 out of the engine. Then carefully remove it and let out any air. Then 

 replace it and run the engine for a few minutes C then let it sit for 

 a few minutes C then carefully remove the coolant cap and then remove 

 the head hose and let out any air. Then do a ground run and watch 

 that the temperature goes up to the thermostat opening temperature C 

 then drops about 5 degrees C and then continues to climb to something 

 stable at less than 180F. If OK C go flying in the pattern to make 

 sure everything's OK. If so C fly somewhere where the food is great 

 and the wait staff curvaceous. (I wanted to say something else C but 

 after all I AM a moderator.)

 One of these days I'm going to fabricate a trick little air 

 vent to put in the head line to facilitate venting. My old Porsche 

 924 had one and it was very convenient.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego C CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting 

&gt================

[quote] 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: 582UL cooling system

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan

 Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:59 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: 582UL cooling system  

At 01:28 PM 4/27/2009, you wrote:

I think it might be a while before I'm ready to fly all the way to one of

 those curvaceous waitresses, but I do have a curvaceous co-pilot who is

 anxious to "get it in the air" (no, I did not misspell that last word...)  

 Well, if you can do that in a Kitfox then you are a much better pilot than I am. 

 Not to mention contortionist! J  

I am thinking that I am not running it enough to open the thermostat and the

 radiator is empty. Is that possible? Does filling a cold system through the

 cap fill the radiator too? And how would I drain the system since the

 coolant is at least 3 years old and I think it should be changed.  

 It should not be possible. Your thermostat should have some small holes near the top to allow air to bleed through as you fill. They also supposedly help damp the thermostat response. You probably could do to change the coolant. Simple remove a radiator hose, if your radiator is on the bottom like mine, and let the system drain. Unfortunately this leaves a bunch of coolant in the radiator. Ideally you'd pull the radiator and drain it as well.

 As an aside, two minutes of running will not get the thermostat open and will leave the radiator cold, fluid or not. Unfortunately I can't give you a time off the top of my head.

The hose coming out of the top of the engine is level with where it goes

 into the copper tube below the cap so I think that if I level out the upward

 stress-loop I won't need to take that hose off.  

 OK, but make darn SURE there's no air in the head.

 Oh, and I would fix the temp gauge FIRST. You need it for debugging. If the thermostat's frozen you'll never know it until the head water temp is way over 180, which, I understand, is very bad for your rotary shaft seals.

Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	

1 	  Quote: 	

2 	  Quote: 	

3 	  Quote: 	

4 	  Quote: 	

5 	  Quote: 	

6 	  Quote: 	

7 	  Quote: 	

8 	  Quote: 	

9

       [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum