Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

leschampmd(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

I am building the wing of an RV-7A and need help on fastening the outboard leading edge ribs to the main spar. The job is obviously 2-man work, but how how those of you who have built this wing fastened those ribs to the spars? have you managed to use AN470-4 rivets and if so, how did you accomplish this? I ask the question because there is no room for a double offset cupped set to fit a rivet head. Have you used a special tool or modified the set? Have you used "pop" rived instead of solid ones? If, what rivets?

 Thanks,

 Bill

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

leschampmd(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am building the wing of an RV-7A and need help on fastening the 

 outboard leading edge ribs to the main spar. The job is obviously 

 2-man work, but how how those of you who have built this wing fastened 

 those ribs to the spars? have you managed to use AN470-4 rivets and if 

 so, how did you accomplish this? I ask the question because there is 

 no room for a double offset cupped set to fit a rivet head. Have you 

 used a special tool or modified the set? Have you used "pop" rived 

 instead of solid ones? If, what rivets?

 Thanks,

 Bill

I had rotten luck with offset sets.
	


It's been a while since I did it, but if I remember correctly, I used a 

long straight set & warped the rib to the side slightly. The 

combination  made room for the gun.



Charlie

chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

Bill,

 I found that doing this job per Vans instructions to be pure idiocy! It's impossible for anyone (I'm 6'4" with long arms) to be able to accurately buck the rivets for the ribs in the center. I decided to use a different method. I back riveted these rivets in. I fabricated a special, heavy bucking bar for this.

  This tool was designed to solve a difficult riveting problem on  RV-7, RV-8/A & RV-9A models. On these models, the leading edge assembly is built in a cradle. It is then attached to the wing main spar by riveting the skins and rear flanges of the ribs to the main spar. Setting the 1/8" rivets between the inner L/E ribs and the main spar is extremely difficult to do well. I solved this by fabricating a large "Tim Allen" bucking bar. With this bar, these rivets can be "back riveted" in place. 

    I inserted the rivets from the front (top as viewed in the jig) to the rear of the wing cord. This is opposite of how Van has you set these rivets. I placed the "Tim Allen" bucking bar with the 1/8" universal set on top of the rivet. I then pressed down on the bucking bar. Fellow RV builder Eric Hensen set the shop heads from below (the rear) using the Avery back riveting set (part # 4580) 

  Since making this tool (about half an hour with a band saw and drill press) I've found numerous other areas to use it on my 8A. It is basically a piece of cold rolled steel 2" X 2" X 5" with 3 holes to insert your universal rivet sets in. I placed the holes so that I could move the rivet set around. This makes it easier to use the tool to set the end rivets on the leading edge ribs. I did cut a slight notch in the bar so that it would clear the "flange" around the lightening holes in the ribs. This notch allows me to hold the bar perfectly parallel to the rib web while using it. 

 These 3 holes are there to insert an 1/8" reduced size universal (Avery #1608) squeezer set in. (the ones you use in your Avery squeezer & C tool) The notch is 3/8" deep and 4" long. The 3 holes for the squeezer sets go in the un-notched area. The holes are 3/16" diameter. Make them deep enough to insert the squeezer sets. 

 Locate them so that the edge of the "reduced diameter" 1/8" universal set comes even with the edge(s) of the bar. Make the cut out area 4" long by 3/8" deep at the top end, away from the holes for the set. The 2 holes on the ends are to allow you to reach the rivets on the edges of the leading edge ribs. I wanted a lot of mass, so that the bar would keep the manufactured head tight against the W-809 rib flange during the back riveting process. To reach the 2 innermost ribs, you won't be able to exert a lot of downward force with your arm muscles. The extra weight (it's 3 pounds) really helps. 

  I also found this bar great for riveting the main ribs to the rear spar. I was able to install the manufactured heads against the 

wing main rib flanges (keeping the manufactured head against the thinner material) rather than against the rear spar. 

 This method has 4 advantages as I see it. 

 #1)This method all but eliminates the chance (near certainty) of "tipping" the shop head of the rivets being set on the inner ribs. Using Van's method, the bucker can not see either the tail of the rivet or the surface of the bucking bar being held against it. He is trying to hold the bucking bar at almost arm's length to set the 2 center ribs. Many early RV-8 builders complained of it being extremely difficult to set these rivets without "tipping" them. 



#2) Since you back rivet these rivets, the person using the gun can actually watch the shop head being formed. This makes it much easier to get excellent results. 



#3)This method puts the manufactured head against the leading edge rib flange. This follows Mil-Spec recommendations. Van's method puts the shop head here where it is very hard to see (read impossible) while setting the rivet. 



#4)Place some duct tape on the web of the main rib while back riveting these rivets. This will prevent any damage if the back rivet set slips. 

  



Charlie Kuss 





--- On Sat, 5/9/09, leschampmd(at)aol.com <leschampmd(at)aol.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: leschampmd(at)aol.com <leschampmd(at)aol.com>

 Subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 9:59 PM

 I am building the wing of an RV-7A and need help

 on?fastening the outboard leading edge ribs to the main

 spar. The job is obviously 2-man work, but how how those of

 you who have built this wing fastened those ribs to the

 spars? have you managed to use AN470-4 rivets and if so, how

 did you accomplish this? I ask the question because there is

 no room for a?double offset cupped set to fit a rivet head.

 Have you used a special tool or modified the set? Have you

 used "pop" rived instead of solid ones? If, what

 rivets?

 Thanks,

 Bill

Binford_9000_bucking_bar_45_degree_bottom_view.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

13.78 KB

Viewed:

4837 Time(s)

Binford_9000_bucking_bar_actual_size_side_view.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

10.89 KB

Viewed:

4837 Time(s)

Leading_edge_back_riveting_bucking_bar_4.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

58.59 KB

Viewed:

4837 Time(s)

Leading_edge_back_riveting_bucking_bar_5.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

53.53 KB

Viewed:

4837 Time(s)

leschampmd(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

Thanks to Charlie Kuss and Charlie England. I appreciate your advice on getting this leading edge in place.

 Bill Leschampmd(at)aol.com (Leschampmd(at)aol.com)

 

 Do not archive! We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. 

  [quote][b]

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

leschampmd(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks to Charlie Kuss and Charlie England. I appreciate your advice 

 on getting this leading edge in place.

 Bill Leschampmd(at)aol.com <mailto:Leschampmd(at)aol.com>



 Do not archive!


	


All the credit goes to the K, not the E. My 'rib warp' technique only 

works on the main ribs; I forgot about the leading edge already being 

assembled when you drop it on the spar....



Sorry 'bout that.



Charlie



Do not archive

kahamer(at)bigpond.net.au
Guest

Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

I used #6 plate nuts and srews.  

   

Karl

chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

Bill,

 I'm just "paying it forward". I received a LOT of help from the members of this list over the years. Does anyone know if the RV10 and RV12 wing designs are similar to the 7, 8 & 9A? I haven't worked on the wings of these two models (yet).

Charlie Kuss

--- On Sun, 5/10/09, leschampmd(at)aol.com <leschampmd(at)aol.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: leschampmd(at)aol.com <leschampmd(at)aol.com>

 Subject: RE: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 10:14 PM

 Thanks to Charlie Kuss and Charlie England. I appreciate

 your advice on getting this leading edge in place.

 Bill Leschampmd(at)aol.com

 

 Do not archive!

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

The -10 has the same joggle-rib architecture according to some of the drawings that I have seen.  Hopefully, they added a sixteenth to the spacing so mere mortals can build them.....

--

leschampmd(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

 	  Quote: 	
		  Karl Ahamer - thanks for your suggestion to secure the leading edge on the RV-& wing. 



It certainly sounds much easier than Vans's method. Another question - did you use 

platenuts and #6 screws on each of the 5 holes, rib to spar?

Bill 	
 We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. 

  [quote][b]

kahamer(at)bigpond.net.au
Guest

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: Securing an RV-7 outboard leading edge

Hi Bill,  

Can’t remember if I used them on all 5 holes,but some might be doable with rivets…..  

I thought there are only 3 rivets per rib to main spar,but its been a few years now…  

   

Karl

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum