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rexinator
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree ethanol is bad). This just neatly explains the issue.
The Great Ethanol Scam
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090515/bs_bw/may2009bw20090514058678
Rex Hefferan
M2/582 Colorado
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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| Quote: | From: Rexinator [rexinator(at)gmail.com]
Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree ethanol is bad).
This just neatly explains the issue.
|
Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need now to pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I can make, Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at one thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he believes in God.
The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is something that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That is the problem!
Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to those who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided and if I am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum ... Mao's little red book! 
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
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patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:21 am Post subject: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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There are no redeeming qualities to burning ethanol as engine fuel. If the politicians didn’t keep throwing huge quantities of money, our money, at it the whole idea would dry up and blow away. Problem is there would be a lot of voting farmers who would be really peeved. I’m also willing to bet the next fuel replacement program will also involve farmers so their peeve won’t last too long.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: 17 May 2009 12:30 PM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Mike, If ethanol polluted gasoline has virtually no redeeming characteristics, and government mandating interference in the market economy promotes only costly inefficienties, as government market interference always does, there IS only one side! The U.S. feeds the world with corn and to mandate burning food for energy when there are other sources is... well you draw your own conclusion.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:10:10 +0200
> From: michel(at)online.no
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
>
> > From: Rexinator [rexinator(at)gmail.com]
> > Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree ethanol is bad).
> > This just neatly explains the issue.
>
> Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need now to pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I can make, Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
>
> But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at one thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he believes in God.
>
> The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is something that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That is the problem!
>
> Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to those who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided and if I am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum ... Mao's little red book!
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face <a href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co=======================
>
> </b></font></pre></body></html> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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[quote][b]
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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Noel - you give far too much credit to farmers! I live in farm country and am all too aware of farmers worried about gambling what to put their acres up in given that by the time the corn is ready for market the politicians and the speculators could have trashed their life savings. It's a nasty situation but the farmers are just pawns in the game, they stand to make good money or lose their overalls over decisions they have absolutely no control over. Maybe farmers should join an organisation with the political clout of the NRA, then you could blame farmers. But then they might shoot back! 
"Voting farmers" - in farm country you have 1 or 2 votes per 100 acres of farmland, in a suburb how many votes per 100 acres - none of them farmers! I doubt the vote matters. Personally I think ethanol is just viewed as "doing something" about our dependence on foreign oil, without really researching whether that something is a good solution at all.
But, bringing it back to Kitfoxes, I am *still* rebuilding my entire fuel system to run on the inevitable corn-gas that I have to use, so I do tend to rant on the topic, sorry. Fire up your blowtorch and flame away Dave, just keep it away from your ethanol reserves...
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Sent: 19 May 2009 8:21 am
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
There are no redeeming qualities to burning ethanol as engine fuel. If the politicians didn’t keep throwing huge quantities of money, our money, at it the whole idea would dry up and blow away. Problem is there would be a lot of voting farmers who would be really peeved. I’m also willing to bet the next fuel replacement program will also involve farmers so their peeve won’t last too long.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: 17 May 2009 12:30 PM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Mike, If ethanol polluted gasoline has virtually no redeeming characteristics, and government mandating interference in the market economy promotes only costly inefficienties, as government market interference always does, there IS only one side! The U.S. feeds the world with corn and to mandate burning food for energy when there are other sources is... well you draw your own conclusion.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
[quote] Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:10:10 +0200
From: michel(at)online.no
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
> From: Rexinator [rexinator(at)gmail.com]
> Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree ethanol is bad).
> This just neatly explains the issue.
Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need now to pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I can make, Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at one thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he believes in God.
The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is something that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That is the problem!
Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to those who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided and if I am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum .. Mao's little red book!
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face <a href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co=======================
</b></font></pre></body></html> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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dwight purdy
Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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Bob
Yes this off subject but I think the farmers are not as innocent as you have stated. I was told that a portion of every bushel sold goes to a lobbying group. Kind of like a union as they have no choice but as it is taken out at time of sale.
If someone would like to straighten me out please contact me off the list. I would feel better if I was wrong.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
[quote] ---
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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Still off topic - not sure where you got that info Dwight but the biggest farmer's organisation I know of is the National Farmer's Union http://nfu.org/ which is strictly voluntary membership and does lobby on behalf of small farms. But I believe it is even less influential than AOPA or the EAA in getting changes in legislation, and certainly does not collect any levies on farm produce.
Slightly back on topic - Paul Poberezny, founder of the EAA, recently wrote an article about ethanol and the EAA's inability to do anything about it. At the end he asked for ideas and support, to which I replied, as I do too often<g>, about my experiences. This is the form reply I got:
"I appreciate your response and comments to the Experimenter article I wrote regarding ethanol in fuel and how this might be overcome through technology. Some felt I was in favor of ethanol in fuel and was promoting its use - which I am not. I well remember the very negative letters I received years back relative to my efforts of the use of automotive fuel for aircraft use (which was successfully used and now, ethanol has been added). Back in 1939, Popular Aviation Magazine published a long article about ethanol being used in aviation fuel.
"I have received various e-mails from individuals who are currently using ethanol in fuel. Some felt EAA should be doing more at the federal or state level to ensure a safe or workable fuel. However, I am not in a position to make that decision, but I continue to serve as an EAA volunteer. (I am not an "employee" of EAA, but have served as one of its 36 EAA directors.)
"I hope in a small way that by asking the question will eventually inspire a solution."
So even the EAA has little infuence in the matter.
bob
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Purdy
Sent: 19 May 2009 6:19 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Bob
Yes this off subject but I think the farmers are not as innocent as you have stated. I was told that a portion of every bushel sold goes to a lobbying group. Kind of like a union as they have no choice but as it is taken out at time of sale.
If someone would like to straighten me out please contact me off the list. I would feel better if I was wrong.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
[quote] ---
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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I am the first to appreciate how an immediate cut of ethanol production could have serious ramifications for farmers. I do think the government has to stop throwing money at using ethanol as a fuel they don’t have to stop entirely tomorrow. I also think the pork & poultry producers will be able to take up a lot of the excess corn produced.
Dave seems to be try9ing to find out how high he can get on hooch!
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: 19 May 2009 11:07 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Noel - you give far too much credit to farmers! I live in farm country and am all too aware of farmers worried about gambling what to put their acres up in given that by the time the corn is ready for market the politicians and the speculators could have trashed their life savings. It's a nasty situation but the farmers are just pawns in the game, they stand to make good money or lose their overalls over decisions they have absolutely no control over. Maybe farmers should join an organisation with the political clout of the NRA, then you could blame farmers. But then they might shoot back!
"Voting farmers" - in farm country you have 1 or 2 votes per 100 acres of farmland, in a suburb how many votes per 100 acres - none of them farmers! I doubt the vote matters. Personally I think ethanol is just viewed as "doing something" about our dependence on foreign oil, without really researching whether that something is a good solution at all.
But, bringing it back to Kitfoxes, I am *still* rebuilding my entire fuel system to run on the inevitable corn-gas that I have to use, so I do tend to rant on the topic, sorry. Fire up your blowtorch and flame away Dave, just keep it away from your ethanol reserves...
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Sent: 19 May 2009 8:21 am
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
There are no redeeming qualities to burning ethanol as engine fuel. If the politicians didn’t keep throwing huge quantities of money, our money, at it the whole idea would dry up and blow away. Problem is there would be a lot of voting farmers who would be really peeved. I’m also willing to bet the next fuel replacement program will also involve farmers so their peeve won’t last too long.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: 17 May 2009 12:30 PM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Mike, If ethanol polluted gasoline has virtually no redeeming characteristics, and government mandating interference in the market economy promotes only costly inefficienties, as government market interference always does, there IS only one side! The U.S. feeds the world with corn and to mandate burning food for energy when there are other sources is... well you draw your own conclusion.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:10:10 +0200
> From: michel(at)online.no
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
>
> > From: Rexinator [rexinator(at)gmail.com]
> > Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree ethanol is bad).
> > This just neatly explains the issue.
>
> Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need now to pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I can make, Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
>
> But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at one thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he believes in God.
>
> The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is something that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That is the problem!
>
> Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to those who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided and if I am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum ... Mao's little red book!
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face <a href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co=======================
>
> </b></font></pre></body></html> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c |
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
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Ethanol is here . I did not have a choice so I use it
almost 600 hours now in just over 2 years .
Trouble free so far .
Seems like only a few have issues and there are not 100 % proven to be ethanol.
Dave
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