Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Cowling Test

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> TeamGrumman-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: Cowling Test

I've spent most of the day talking to



Ray Christ:  Lycoming engines

Joe Logie:  Champion/Unison

Ken Tunnel:  LyCon Engine Rebuilders

Hugh Evans:  Merlin Products

Ken Blackman: Air Mods Northwest



To the best of their knowledge they've never had to instrument Slick 

mag for any modification or testing.  Hugh has done Bendix mags.  The 

upper limit on Bendix mags is 225 degrees F.  Slick was offering to 

replace Bendix mags on many installations years ago.  That implies, the 

upper limit is 225 for a Slick mag.



"Measure the temperature on the outside surface of the

magneto frame during the long-term test at the highest RPM

setting. The magneto will generate heat during normal

operation. Maximum temperature on the outside surface of

the magneto frame is 175°F when tested at room temperature."



Note this says, "when tested at room temperature."  Room temperature is 

now 72 degrees F.  This also says, "during the long-term test at the 

highest RPM setting" which clearly means testing on a bench.

To the best of their combined knowledge, no one knew 'where' to measure 

the temperature.  Ray said the mag had to be drilled and a 

thermal-couple placed on the coil.  Both Kens and Hugh said if they 

were to test it would be on the magneto case (frame).  Joe, 

Unison/Champion, said (and, this is from my notes, but I could be 

wrong) that Champion only got the PMA rights and that all of the 

en

gineering data, as far as he knew, none of the engineering data was 

included.  He said I'd have to ask their engineering department to stop 

what they are doing during the reorganization and I'd have to pay for 

the data.



 From the internet, the rule-of-thumb for new experimental installations 

was 190 degrees in the accessory compartment.



All of them said the person to make the decision as to what was 

acceptable testing was the ACO.  When I added that the ACO was hoping 

I'd do their job and get the necessary paperwork, reports, 

certification procedures from Lycoming or Champion, none of them were 

surprised.



I'll do whatever it takes.  Just let me know what needs to be done.



Gary

- The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

don.curry(at)inbox.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: Cowling Test

So, Gary, get out of that bastion for bureaucratic excess and move someplace

that doesn't mind forward-looking entrepreneurs -- even those in the field

of aviation.  I would think that almost anyplace would be more friendly to

an aviation-based small business than California (except Florida or Maine,

both of which thank their larder-boosting aero-transients with

personal-property-tax bills).  After all, California probably views you as a

carbon-burning, lead-spewing menace.  I know, you're working with the FAA,

not the state, right?  Well, don't forget that most the Feds in California

are still, probably, Californians.  It's likely that almost any other FSDO

you encounter will be staffed with guys who are less, er. . .difficult.

Look at what other aviation notables have done: True Flight/Tiger made its

home in GA; HondaJet settled in NC; Precision Engine lives in KY; and Bob

Stewart's home base is in AL (not that I can claim to speak for any of them

nor that any of them made those choices because of the nature of the

bureaucracy in any particular place -- that's my disclaimer).  So get out of

the darkness and move towards the light!  And bring Cliffy and Maynard with

you! 

Don

[quote] --

- The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject: Cowling Test

Gary, this is pretty incredible!  Why don't you write a letter to the FAA 

and include info about all your phone conversations in some organized 

logical way (even though that may not make any difference to the FAA) and 

see what they have to say.  Basically present your case about why should any 

additional testing be needed based on your under cowl temperatures and maybe 

any lack of standards as to temperature requirements and where it is to be 

measured if that is the case.  What are these guys trying to prove?  This 

sort of thing used to be approved at the FSDO level with the stroke of a pen 

and possibly a cooling test and maybe a dive test to see if the thing holds 

together.  Planes did not fall out of the sky as a result back then.  It is 

no wonder there is no incentive in pursuing certified aircraft modifications 

any more and all the real improvements are happening in the experimental 

world.



Cliff

---

- The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: Cowling Test

I have sent all of my conversations and contacts to my DER.  He is in 

Brazil right now and will look into it when he returns.

--

- The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Cowling Test

The really strange thing is, the FAA is going for a zero failure rate.  

Only to be able to say, "It wasn't our fault."



The government cannot be sued.  None of them will have their 

retirements taken from them.



Plus.



If you aren't making mistakes, you aren't learning.



"The only people who have never failed are those who haven't attempted 

to do anything beyond the narrow limits of what they already knew they 

could do."  - unknown



"The percentage of mistakes in quick decisions is no greater than in 

long, drawn-out vacillations, and the effect of decisiveness itself 

"makes things go" and creates confidence."  -Ann O'Hare McCormick

--

- The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> TeamGrumman-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum