WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/15/09 |
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Mason , Thanks for the info,I`ll give him a call. Again Thanks Gil
In a message dated 6/16/2009 12:57:13 A.M. Central America Standard , commander-list(at)matronics.com writes:
[quote]*
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Commander-List Digest Archive
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Total Messages Posted Mon 06/15/09: 5
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Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:22 AM - Sept flyin and Convention now on website (nico css)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (s)
3. 05:59 AM - Re: Fuel drains for 680 (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
4. 09:56 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (nico css)
5. 12:41 PM - What was he thinking... (nico css)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 12:22:25 AM PST US
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Sept flyin and Convention now on website
Folks,
The Flyin and convention notice and subscription form is on the website
www.aerocommander.com
Please check it out and let me know if you spot anything that needs to be
fixed or said differently.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 04:55:04 AM PST US
From: "s" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Nico,
I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No
citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention.
Law abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling.
I think we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part
of duly authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse
has happened frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The
much hated civil libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check.
What is maybe different is that this time a different group of person
was affected, one of us.
I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been
individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where
we may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very
creation to abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I
hear the words liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged
many of our liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety.
Shaking down Grandma at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence
that only goes around the front of the airport..... It makes me sick to
see that fence keeping the public away, instead of the picnic bench we
used to have. Domestic wire-tapping, surveillance, banking
transactions.....
Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems
silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at
powerful government agencies a couple months into a new administration,
when nothing was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at
the time, and those more interested in civil liberties were mocked.
We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who
filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now.
I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Fuming Mad!
Hi Steve.
I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the
abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just
doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the
side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar
powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally
subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be
locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no
recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only
about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe
about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I
avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights
they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent
decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they
executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause
is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first,
which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation
community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even
police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops
draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is
reasonable.
Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at
gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse,
violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life,
which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble
opinion, something for which you can sue.
The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's
interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior
information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would
have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time.
Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace.
Nico
The incident:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528
and Russ Niles' blog:
http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1
.html
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From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard
out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that
was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts,
bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the
name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to
limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting
these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate,
we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and
Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives
didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed
instead to their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I
can go back to normal.
Steve
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