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How do you refuel your kitfox?
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shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

Go to the farm store like ORSCHELN, FARM & FLEET, TRACTOR SUPPLY etc and you

can buy a tank, pump and maybe a tool box on top for $500.   Consider one

that is flush or nearly flush with the top of the bed, the others block the

view backing up, but other than that are OK.  I'll send this direct also and

attach a pic of my fuel truck.  Bob U.



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mscotter

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

I think a continuity check would be well advised to confirm your ground path

Lynn.  I work around solvents quite often in my work and we often have to go

to extensive lengths to ground and bond everything, but it is better than

the alternative.  And yes, more than once I have had someone check with a

meter to make sure we had good continuity rather than just assuming.  



Someone mentioned earlier pressurizing a gas can with 5psi for transfer.  I

would consider this a definite no-no, at least not without some significant

safety precautions.  If I had no other choice but to do that at work, I

would be surely be pressurizing with nitrogen (not air!), and I would make

sure my transfer line was well grounded and bonded to whatever container I

was transferring to.  Additionally, I would probably put a rod down into the

gasoline in the receiving end, and I would make sure I had a way to vent the

pressure off carefully, away from me.  






I just started using a Mr. Funnel. Their literature says that, yes, 

they use carbon in the plastic mix. They are model number xxxxC..."C" 

for conductive. They also produce a   xxxxNC "NC" for, you guessed it, 

non-conductive.  Interestingly, Home Depot sells the NC version, but I 

had to go to an aircraft supplier to buy mine, the "C" version.

When this subject was brought up last year, I had both wings in the 

"pink" stage...Poly-brush...and decided to solder a 1/4" braided copper 

bonding wire to the tank necks,  routed the wire across the fuel tank 

and terminated the wire at the rear strut attaching bolt. Through the 

metal airframe and various bonding straps, the current (or whatever the 

nasty electrical stuff that starts fires is called...I'm no 

electrician) finds its' way to the exhaust pipe where I connect it to a 

pipe driven in the ground inside my hangar...WHEW! what a journey!  

This gives me a thought...maybe I ought to do a continuity check and 

see if I really DO have continuity, and am therefore safe.

_________________
Mark Scott
Winston-Salem, NC

rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

I have had solvent handling safety experts tell me that you can not get

static discharge when using plastic cans and tanks because the plastic

doesn't conduct well enough to cause the discharge.  I suspect that this is

true when humidity is in the double digits, but I have seen methanol ignited

going into a 500 gallon polyethylene tank.  Humidity was about 7% at the

time.



I would caution against grounding plastic tanks.  It can be done, but if not

done right, you can increase the hazard by creating more opportunity for

sparks than existed before.



I like Alan's Static Guard and then let the plastic gas can sit on the wing

for a few minutes prior to pouring.  I also ground my body by touching metal

on the frame immediately prior to pouring.



Randy - Series 5/7 - 912S



.           

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rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

Thanks Mike.  Also thanks for the heating idea.  I have trouble keeping my

engine temperatures up so cover a lot of the radiator.



Randy  



Do not archive.



.           

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pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

I read that the static discharge comes from the liquid flowing into the 

tank. The composition of the can does not matter. The static charge 

collects on the surface of the container which is why one should always 

fill the container on the concrete at the gas station. Filling the 

container in the back of the truck or trailer is high risk. Plenty of 

anecdotal stories of plastic tanks going off when filled in somebodies pickup.

If the container/spout is in contact with the fill port of the plane tank 

then the risk is lower compared to non contact. For lower risk using a 

funnel make sure funnel contacts the fuel tank and the container contacts 

the funnel. Risk is even lower if the plane tank opening is grounded along 

with the fill container. I was surprised that Skystar did not recommend 

grounding the tank opening.

Lots of info on the web on this subject. Lots of variables control the risk 

so good practice is always wise.

Regards, Paul

======================

At 09:12 AM 4/1/2006, you wrote:

[quote]

<rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com>



I have had solvent handling safety experts tell me that you can not get

static discharge when using plastic cans and tanks because the plastic

doesn't conduct well enough to cause the discharge.  I suspect that this is

true when humidity is in the double digits, but I have seen methanol ignited

going into a 500 gallon polyethylene tank.  Humidity was about 7% at the

time.



I would caution against grounding plastic tanks.  It can be done, but if not

done right, you can increase the hazard by creating more opportunity for

sparks than existed before.



I like Alan's Static Guard and then let the plastic gas can sit on the wing

for a few minutes prior to pouring.  I also ground my body by touching metal

on the frame immediately prior to pouring.



Randy - Series 5/7 - 912S



.

--

Richard Rabbers

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Benton Harbor, MI - USA

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: How do you refuel your kitfox?

This topic is important to all - If there are any experts that could propose the ultimate fueling method and precautions - please help. 



I believe that all of us understand transfering and handling fuel is hazardous. Let's continue to find the safest way to carryout this repetative task.  



I work with plastic films - carbon black is the cheapest way to make plastic conductive. Another method is additive that blooms to the surface and draws moisture out of the atmosphere to the surface of the plastic (not effective at low humidity) Understanding what causes static then minimizing static generation, dissapating any result and all other other precations should be pursued.



Here's some collected info that speaks to a few recent postings



http://www.aclstaticide.com/01/  (go to 'static eductation page /a good overview of EDS)



….Excerpt from fueling related pages ……



http://www.purgit.com/static.html (Static Electric Discharge Hazard) 



…..Static electricity is generated when liquids move in contact with other materials. This is a common occurrence when liquid is being moved through pipes, mixed, poured, pumped, filtered, or otherwise agitated………



http://www.environmental.usace.army.mil/library/faq/faqproeng/faqproeng.html (What are safe practices for handling recovered flammable liquids, especially JP-4 and JP-8? )



…. When liquids flow through closed metal pipes, static electricity is not a hazard.  It may become a hazard, however, when liquids are pumped into tanks.  Charges produced in the liquid during pumping can accumulate on the surface of the liquid and cause sparking between the liquid surface and the tank or a projection in the tank…..



…..Filters in pipelines greatly increase the generation of static electricity.  In one in aircraft fueling test it was reported that the charge development was 10 to 200 times more with a filter than without one……  



……In addition, all sampling probes and containers should preferably be non-conductive; a lost conductive object floating in a tank could cause sparking when it approaches the tank wall…… 



……Some vendors may claim to have intrinsically safe air-operated pumps on the market that are in fact not appropriate for handling flammable liquids. Pumps that use compressed air to directly contact and "push" the fluid from the pump should not be used for transferring flammable liquids.  However, there are a number of pumps on the market that are capable of transferring combustible liquids without using compressed air as the means of transfer.  Also, some companies offer a bellows or bladder pump that isolates the compressed air from the fluid pumped.……

_________________
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)

Bill Willyard

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Grandville, Michigan U.S.A.

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

I simply used a small air pressure regulator in conjunction with my air compressor. I chose to use the drum in the vertical mode on a dolly, so I had to fabricate a dip tube to pick up fuel near the bottom of the drum. I used an automotive fuel filter at the outlet of the drum to eliminate any dirt that may be picked up as a result of transporting fuel in 6 gal. cans. I applied the air to the smaller tapped opening in the top of the drum. I would seal the drum tightly between fuellings to keep the fuel fresher. I used this to my advantage and bought fuel when the price was down (fuel prices are very volatile in West Michigan - 10 to 15 cent per gallon per day change is not unusual.) Also with this method I only had to lift the cans as high as the drum which is much easier for me than pouring directly into the tank and saves the mess of fuel running over the wing from an overfill. I also followed safe grounding procedures including a ground connection at the dispensing valve a

 t the end of the hose.

 

Bill W.

 

--

_________________
Bill Willyard
Classic IV 912UL

N53dw(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Syphon Mate.  It works great.   Just park 

the gas can up on the wing, give the hose a couple of jiggles, and go  do the 

rest of your preflight.  Just make sure there's room in your tank  for the 

whole can.  

 

 

Danny Williamson

Pride, LA

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

I did a continuity check and found .5 ohm  (one-half ohm) between the 

tank neck (where my bonding strap is soldered on), and the exhaust 

pipe. With a jumper cable clamped onto the exhaust pipe and then onto a 

pipe that is driven into the hangar floor (dirt floor....pipe is for 

holding hangar doors closed) the reading between tank neck and dirt 

floor is 5.something ohms...that is, less than 6 ohms.

That seems to me to be adequate for carrying the "bad stuff" to 

ground...am I right? (My main source for all things electrical, Duane, 

is off playing with his 'fox today, so out of the loop for a direct 

answer....anybody else want to chime in?)



Lynn

Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200

On Saturday, April 1, 2006, at 08:08  AM, mscotter wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I think a continuity check would be well advised to confirm your 

 ground path

 Lynn.  I work around solvents quite often in my work and we often have 

 to go

 to extensive lengths to ground and bond everything, but it is better 

 than

 the alternative.  And yes, more than once I have had someone check 

 with a

 meter to make sure we had good continuity rather than just assuming.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

pslawr(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: How do you refuel your kitfox?

My experience has been "NEVER USE  A METAL FUNNEL" when fueling from plastic 

gas cans to a metal filler cap.  I saw sparks and decided that there is 

definitely no future in that arrangement.  I now use a plastic funnel and 

have had no problems.



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