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Mike have no fear fuel filter.

 
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jimh474(at)embarqmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Mike Have No Fear and all;

The fuel filter clogging that Bro John H experienced, I was a passenger on
that flight.

It wouldn't have made any difference if the filter was your recommended
$80.00, plus shipping, plus taxes of all kinds, super duper filter that you
are pushing or a wash tub sized one, it would have clogged.

The cause was, we got the first load of fuel out of a brand new fuel system
that was built for refueling a/c at a Fly-in, in Texas. Undoubtedly the
system was never flushed out after assembly and we got the full load of
debris that was in the tank. Not water, debris. Trash, junk what ever you
want to call it.

Now, we will hear that John, should have checked the fuel source, maybe he
should have, but he didn't just like 99.99% of all pilots don't, to include
jet pilots Smile under the same circumstances.

But Texas being such a fine state, they had laid out an 8,000 Ft concrete
runway for us to make our forced landing on, some 30 miles from where we
departed.

I think if most folks put their mind in gear before they put their fingers
on the keyboard, we could eliminate all of the P---ing contest with the
exception of those few that have that ego and hide behind the monitor
problem.

Jim H

The older brother
PS: Mike, What does, not going as fast as you could have to do with fear?


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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Brother Jim,

Your account adds a lot of information to this engine failure, from what you report no fuel filter would have prevented the engine failure. This is why I was very careful to say, Maybe and Possibly when referring to his engine failure. What is a certainty is that more area in a filter element is better, and is less likely to clog and result in an engine failure. My Honda Civic has a filter with 10 times more filter area than the little filters many are using in their planes, its just good design.

As far as John H's filter, it has obviously worked well for him for 14 years, John H is a very smart man and knows how to keep alive in a Kolb in conditions most of us will ever see. John H is the first guy I go to when I have a Kolb question. I am not trying to get John H to change a filter that has served him well for so long.

But here is my question, given that all brands seem to be importing the same model filter from China, but now made cheaply and very prone to failure, how can anyone tell guys that recently bought or are planning on buying this model of filter that they are safe to use in an airplane. Look at Gary Siegrest's report that was posted today. I cant overemphasize how dangerous a floor full of gasoline is in flight. I previously talked about this exact type of problem with these filters, it is well known, and there have been many previous reports of this model fuel filter failing in the same way.

What everyone reading this list needs to know is, given the reality of cheap Chinese imports of almost every product, what filter should people buy for their Kolb today ?

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Might try one that's FAA approved --

On Aug 18, 2009, at 8:33 PM, JetPilot wrote:

Quote:


Brother Jim,

Your account adds a lot of information to this engine failure,
from what you report no fuel filter would have prevented the engine
failure. This is why I was very careful to say, Maybe and Possibly
when referring to his engine failure. What is a certainty is that
more area in a filter element is better, and is less likely to clog
and result in an engine failure. My Honda Civic has a filter with
10 times more filter area than the little filters many are using in
their planes, its just good design.

As far as John H's filter, it has obviously worked well for him for
14 years, John H is a very smart man and knows how to keep alive in
a Kolb in conditions most of us will ever see. John H is the first
guy I go to when I have a Kolb question. I am not trying to get
John H to change a filter that has served him well for so long.

But here is my question, given that all brands seem to be importing
the same model filter from China, but now made cheaply and very
prone to failure, how can anyone tell guys that recently bought or
are planning on buying this model of filter that they are safe to
use in an airplane. Look at Gary Siegrest's report that was
posted today. I cant overemphasize how dangerous a floor full of
gasoline is in flight. I previously talked about this exact type
of problem with these filters, it is well known, and there have
been many previous reports of this model fuel filter failing in the
same way.

What everyone reading this list needs to know is, given the reality
of cheap Chinese imports of almost every product, what filter
should people buy for their Kolb today ?

Mike

--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S


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lcottrell



Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

[quote] ---

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Mike;

I don't believe that John ever said for anyone to buy the type filter he has
used. he said it has worked for him.

There is a big difference.
Jim H


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:45 am    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

given that all brands seem to be importing
Quote:
the same model filter from China, but now made cheaply and very prone to
failure, how can anyone tell guys that recently bought or are planning on
buying this model of filter that they are safe to use in an airplane. >>

It seems from reading alll these posts that you guys are carrying
independence and ionvention to unnecessary levels.

You seem to be hunting all the cheap sources from K-Mart on down to try and
save a buck to try and fix a problem that doesn`t exist.

The manufacturer of our planes has years of experience on their side with
records of everyones mishaps since day one. Yet the first thing that seems
to happen is that you, the builder, probably on your first kit, decide that
you know best. You can save ten cents by replacing the makers suggestion
with some idea of your own. You `improve` the fuel system, the trim system,.
lengthen rudders, shorten wings.

You complain about bad filters having bought the cheapest one you can find
on the net. Probably a car part, and then complain that it fails

I have a suggestion. Do what the plans say. Dont try to second guess a
proved and tried design. Buy real aircraft parts. Pay the extra 50 cents.
Buy from a proper aircraft parts supplier who has his reputation on the
line.

I have only built or had built two planes. They were both bog standard and
apart from having a drive belt shed its teeth on my Challenger I have never
had a part fail. I treat the plane by the book and I do not expect to have
any trouble. I do not install, extra pumps, extra this , extra that just
because it `might` fail. Just build it and leave it alone. It will be fine.

Pat


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:12 am    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

> It seems from reading alll these posts that you guys are carrying
Quote:
independence and ionvention to unnecessary levels.

> I have only built or had built two planes. They were both bog standard

and
Quote:
apart from having a drive belt shed its teeth on my Challenger I have
never had a part fail. I treat the plane by the book and I do not expect
to have any trouble. I do not install, extra pumps, extra this , extra
that just because it `might` fail. Just build it and leave it alone. It
will be fine.

Pat


Patrick:

Freedom is cool! So is independence and invention. I could have never
flown my little Kolb airplanes the places I did without the freedom to
change, invent, improve on a proven design. Old and new Kolb Aircraft
Company picked up on a lot of changes/improvements that were designed and
tested by customers. There are tools and devices customers have come up
with that TNK sells every day. One of them is the "Kentucky Windage Device"
to adjust the incidence of the wing. Many improvements to fuselages were
incorporated in factory kits after customers had modified their kits. A
customer designed and tested the dual controls you are flying with. A
customer designed the basic Kolbra. A customer flew the initial tests off
the latest model MKIIIx. The list goes on. A lot of us on this List like
to fix stuff, our way, if we are not completely happy with the way somebody
else did it.

I like this one, "I have only built or had built two planes." Does that
mean you built one and had the other built? You had both built and you
handed the builder a tool once in a while? Wink

Thank God we have the freedom to explore and expand without being
overregulated in the process.

Remember, you have to fly'em to wear'em out. Flying into hangers doesn't
count. Glad you got your bird fixed and flying again. Especially glad you
did not get hurt in the process of experimenting with hanger flying.

john h
mkIII


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:09 am    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

In a message dated 8/19/2009 5:45:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:
Quote:
You complain about bad filters having bought the cheapest one you can find
on the net. Probably a car part, and then complain that it fails


I buy cheap paper filters all the time for about $2.50 & have been buying them for 30+ years. All with no problems what-so-ever. You guys should be NASA engineers instead of hometown ultralighters or LSA'ers or whatever the hell they're called now.

Flying ultralights/LSAs is expensive enough without talking about $80 or $100 fuel filters. This is crazy. What are we trying to do...engineer an "FAA approved" aircraft? We all know how many of those FAA approved aircraft have crashed over the past 70 or 80 years...tens of thousands...and they're still crashing today.

You're not going to bullet-proof yourself no matter what you do. One little mistake taken at the wrong altitude or time is going to do you in & your little "official Amalgamated Whatzit" fuel filter is not going to save you. Liken it to Vietnam, you've got a guy Airborne Ranger Recondo LRRP qualified, thinks he's indestructible, goes out into the jungle for his first trip...and gets zapped by a sniper's bullet. Like an LSA owner who has all the bells & whistles & 80 dollar fuel filter, goes up for his first flight, gets in a mid-air & crashes.

As I've said before, GO FLY the damn things & quit trying to convince yourself your machine is invincible...and scare the hell out of lurkers & potential Kolb buyers (of possibly YOUR aircraft). Enjoy life & stop smearing BS all over the internet & turning people off to hear all this crap & decide NOT to partake in the sport.

Bill Catalina...
Pterodactyl, Quicksilver (all kinds), Wizard, Maxair, Kolb, SeaWing, Phantom.
U.N. World Food Program - Sudan - Twin Otter
Sudanese An-26
Obama Air Armada
My pal Moses...no relation to the Biblical Moses.
My next door neighbors.
Your tax dollars at work.
At least (in this case) they're not going into Obama's Health Care plan.


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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:22 am    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Right on Bill

Frank Goodnight
On Aug 19, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Blumax008(at)aol.com (Blumax008(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] In a message dated 8/19/2009 5:45:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com) writes:
Quote:
You complain about bad filters having bought the cheapest one you can find
on the net. Probably a car part, and then complain that it fails


I buy cheap paper filters all the time for about $2.50 & have been buying them for 30+ years. All with no problems what-so-ever. You guys should be NASA engineers instead of hometown ultralighters or LSA'ers or whatever the hell they're called now.

Flying ultralights/LSAs is expensive enough without talking about $80 or $100 fuel filters. This is crazy. What are we trying to do...engineer an "FAA approved" aircraft? We all know how many of those FAA approved aircraft have crashed over the past 70 or 80 years...tens of thousands...and they're still crashing today.

You're not going to bullet-proof yourself no matter what you do. One little mistake taken at the wrong altitude or time is going to do you in & your little "official Amalgamated Whatzit" fuel filter is not going to save you. Liken it to Vietnam, you've got a guy Airborne Ranger Recondo LRRP qualified, thinks he's indestructible, goes out into the jungle for his first trip...and gets zapped by a sniper's bullet. Like an LSA owner who has all the bells & whistles & 80 dollar fuel filter, goes up for his first flight, gets in a mid-air & crashes.

As I've said before, GO FLY the damn things & quit trying to convince yourself your machine is invincible...and scare the hell out of lurkers & potential Kolb buyers (of possibly YOUR aircraft). Enjoy life & stop smearing BS all over the internet & turning people off to hear all this crap & decide NOT to partake in the sport.

Bill Catalina...
Pterodactyl, Quicksilver (all kinds), Wizard, Maxair, Kolb, SeaWing, Phantom.
U.N. World Food Program - Sudan - Twin Otter
<Africa%20Aug.%2008%20to%20Feb.%2009%20149.JPG> Sudanese An-26
<Africa%20Aug.%2008%20to%20Feb.%2009%20151.JPG> Obama Air Armada
<Africa%20Aug.%2008%20to%20Feb.%2009%20180.JPG> My pal Moses...no relation to the Biblical Moses.
<Africa%20Aug.%2008%20to%20Feb.%2009%20203.JPG> My next door neighbors.
<Africa%20Aug.%2008%20to%20Feb.%2009%20211.JPG> Your tax dollars at work.
At least (in this case) they're not going into Obama's Health Care plan.



[b]


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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

russ(at)rkiphoto.com wrote:


Might try one that's FAA approved --



That is a very good idea, if there was an FAA GA filter that was available at a reasonable price, that would fit our fuel systems. An FAA approved part should be reliable and well made, not like rolling the dice with the latest cheap Chinese imports. I wonder if they would tolerate ethanol ? I will stick to my 80 dollar filter, I think its the best I can get... If I did not have my filter I would be on my way to the local airport and ask some GA mechanics about whats available for what price. I don't know if this idea is practical or not, but it would be well worth researching.

Mike


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ronlee



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Given the fact that so many flying machine accidents are caused by some type of fuel problem, my choice is to be very careful in that area.
Use good fresh clean fuel, clean cans, good fuel line with good clamps, a nice big fuel filter that is capable of collecting lots of crud before plugging etc.


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Quote:
Given the fact that so many flying machine accidents are caused by some
type of fuel problem, my choice is to be very careful in that area.
Use good fresh clean fuel, clean cans, good fuel line with good clamps, a
nice big fuel filter that is capable of collecting lots of crud before
plugging etc.

--------
Ron Lee


Ron L:

Good post.

I might add: Take a fuel sample in a clean, clear container before the
first flight each day, and if there is any doubt about the source of fuel if
fueling away from your home field.

That was my mistake, both times I lost my 912. Not fuel filter, or lines,
or finger strainer, fuel pumps, clamps, but my neglect in taking a good fuel
sample after refueling from new, unfamiliar, uncertified sources.

When I am on a cross country I usually always refuel out of a pump at an
airport, even if it cost more. I'll take on fuel from a service station,
out of gas cans, as I do at Monument Valley and also at Larry Cottrell's.
In an emergency I'll take it where I can get it, but I will drain a sample,
after the fuel settles and see what I have taken on board.

Don't want to get bit the third time.

john h
mkIII


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Mike have no fear fuel filter. Reply with quote

Flying into hangers doesn't
count. Glad you got your bird fixed and flying again. Especially glad you
did not get hurt in the process of experimenting with hanger flying.>>

Great John, that made me laugh out loud.

I wasn`t really having a little dig at the reasoned and well thought out
changes that experienced people like you make and my point about Kolb
knowing more than anyone else was precisely beacause they get feed back from
customers. My beef was about those who go on...and on....and on about the
oil they use etc. Just anything except what the manufacturer specified.For
what gain? 10 cents.

Its great that you can experiment and I wish we had a little more leeway
sometimes. In fact we now have a very light weight category where we can do
just that but it does not include Kolbs.

If you post on the list that you have built a gismo that added 15mph to your
cruise I should listen with interest. But I am not going overboard because
you have changed the type of plug you use in the face of the makers
recommendation to save a buck every 500 klicks particularly if it starts a
thread that goes on for a couple of weeks.

Still chuckling

Pat


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