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dbrown(at)avecc.com
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 Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: Bing Carb |
 |
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I bent up a set of X vanes made of Stainless steel thin sheet about 2"
long, not made to rotate the air, but to straighten it just before the
carbi. Inserted it in the scat tubing. Bent flanges so that it keeps
tension on the sides of the tubing so that it cannot move. Max EGTs
range from 1330 to 1370 now. No reduction of power, maybe a little
increase. I wouldn't trade my bing now. I get about 4.7GPH at 2750 RPM,
115 MPH.
David 601XL JAB 3300
N601EX
I cut and bent it out of stainless steel. The little "stems" sticking
out of the tops of the vanes are what is used to hold it in place. I
bent the vanes to about a 45 degree angle. After installation, I ran
the engine up, and it seemed like the rpm's were fine, but on
climbout it was about 200 rpm down, and pretty weak in climb. I
thought it might have been the quite strong wind I was fighting, but
the next day wasn't any better so I removed the device and power was
restored. In retrospect, I think if I had made the outside a complete
circle, and let the center of the vanes be more open...in other
words, just have the vanes at the periphery, I think it might have
worked. But I do not have the means to saw to the inside of a circle
on my bandsaw...no blade welding attachment. I may try this
experiment again if I can find a way to make it here at home.
By the way, this device is not intended to rotate. It is just
supposed to make the air rotate, or become turbulent.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
do not archive
Time: 10:10:16 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Here's an idea that DIDN'T work
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Lynn, Just a thought, but any airfoil surface, even a flat plate will
stall
at about a 12 to 16 degrees angle of attack. Before you give up, try
bending the vanes to something well below this, say 8 to 10 degrees.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Last week or so, I mentioned I was going to build a "turbulator" for
my
|
| Quote: | induction system. Here are pictures of what I built and what it looks
(looked) like installed.
I cut and bent it out of stainless steel. The little "stems" sticking
out
|
| Quote: | of the tops of the vanes are what is used to hold it in place. I bent
the
|
| Quote: | vanes to about a 45 degree angle. After installation, I ran the engine
up,
|
| Quote: | and it seemed like the rpm's were fine, but on climbout it was about
200 rpm
|
| Quote: | down, and pretty weak in climb. I thought it might have been the quite
strong wind I was fighting, but the next day wasn't any better so I
removed
|
| Quote: | the device and power was restored. In retrospect, I think if I had
made the
|
| Quote: | outside a complete circle, and let the center of the vanes be more
open...in
|
| Quote: | other words, just have the vanes at the periphery, I think it might
have
|
| Quote: | worked. But I do not have the means to saw to the inside of a circle
on my
|
| Quote: | bandsaw...no blade welding attachment. I may try this experiment again
if I
|
| Quote: | can find a way to make it here at home.
By the way, this device is not intended to rotate. It is just supposed
to
|
| Quote: | make the air rotate, or become turbulent.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
do not archive
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: Bing Carb |
|
|
Good idea, David....now if you had a way to lean the Bing (maybe a
HACman?), you'd really love it. : ) I'm not sure that the HACman
works at all altitudes, though....I just don't know much about it.
I did a similar thing with a fiberglass tube with X vanes, built
right into my Bing air intake, and found that rotating the air intake
would affect EGT's and which banks were hotter, left to right.
It would be nice to have a cabin-controlled set of X vanes so that
instant observation of results could be obtained.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 8, 2009, at 10:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
| Quote: |
<dbrown(at)avecc.com>
I bent up a set of X vanes made of Stainless steel thin sheet about 2"
long, not made to rotate the air, but to straighten it just before the
carbi. Inserted it in the scat tubing. Bent flanges so that it keeps
tension on the sides of the tubing so that it cannot move. Max EGTs
range from 1330 to 1370 now. No reduction of power, maybe a little
increase. I wouldn't trade my bing now. I get about 4.7GPH at 2750
RPM,
115 MPH.
David 601XL JAB 3300
N601EX
|
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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dbrown(at)avecc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: bing carb |
|
|
Lynn, Listers
I know that all EGT's Are relative and that during my tuning experience
that I saw EGT's for short periods that were 1410-1420's. can you give
an EGT no. that represents peak. I am wondering how close I am to
running at that point that is 50 degrees rich of peak that can be
destructive to an engine?
David Brown
601XL JAB 3300
N601EX 125 HRS
Subject: Bing Carb
From: "David Brown" <dbrown(at)avecc.com>
I bent up a set of X vanes made of Stainless steel thin sheet about 2"
long, not made to rotate the air, but to straighten it just before the
carbi. Inserted it in the scat tubing. Bent flanges so that it keeps
tension on the sides of the tubing so that it cannot move. Max EGTs
range from 1330 to 1370 now. No reduction of power, maybe a little
increase. I wouldn't trade my bing now. I get about 4.7GPH at 2750 RPM,
115 MPH.
Good idea, David....now if you had a way to lean the Bing (maybe a
HACman?), you'd really love it. : ) I'm not sure that the HACman
works at all altitudes, though....I just don't know much about it.
I did a similar thing with a fiberglass tube with X vanes, built
right into my Bing air intake, and found that rotating the air intake
would affect EGT's and which banks were hotter, left to right.
It would be nice to have a cabin-controlled set of X vanes so that
instant observation of results could be obtained.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: bing carb |
|
|
Well, for an example....and I don't know how bad this was....I saw
1468 F. today. I was flying along at WOT (3010 rpm), and my #3 got
that high. That was as high as it got, and when it leveled off at
that temp, I reduced throttle to about 2850, and the EGT's came down.
I think this is another example of the fuel slamming forward at high
revs, and the rear cylinders going lean.
Then when I went into "lean of peak" mode, I was getting 1370-1390's
F., and CHT's of 288-305 F. When things settle down after leaning
out, my EGT's had a spread of 47-60-something, and CHT's were within
3 F. at one point, and stayed at less than a 15 F. spread.
Usually when I'm turning about 2850 rpm and I go into "lean of peak
EGT" mode, the #4 gets there first (as I'm leaning) followed by #3,
and I usually watch the #3 (for no good reason at all, and this may
be wrong) get to about 1430-1440, and then it starts to drop. At the
time it peaks....1440 for example...I'll subtract 20 and lean to
1420. At this point there is still power, and it hasn't started to
stumble yet. If I pull it much more lean, it will start to sag, and I
enrichen j-u-s-t a tad. I almost always see 3.2-3.4 gph on the fuel
flow meter at this point. If I cut the revs down to the low 2700's it
will flow under 3.0 gph. At about 2580 or so, 2.5-2.8 gph, but I'm
not going anywhere, just counting the cows. : )
I've looked at the tops and edges of my pistons (small goose-neck
flashlight), and there are no signs of problems yet.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~239
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:17 PM, David Brown wrote:
| Quote: |
<dbrown(at)avecc.com>
Lynn, Listers
I know that all EGT's Are relative and that during my tuning
experience
that I saw EGT's for short periods that were 1410-1420's. can you
give
an EGT no. that represents peak. I am wondering how close I am to
running at that point that is 50 degrees rich of peak that can be
destructive to an engine?
David Brown
601XL JAB 3300
N601EX 125 HRS
|
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
|
_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: bing carb |
|
|
Good Afternoon Lynn, (and David Brown)
Just to beat a dead horse!!<G>
I know I am late getting to this thread, but I would like to emphasize again that the actual temperature reached on any EGT gauge is immaterial.
The important thing is how close the fuel flows are when the temperature does reach peak whatever that peak may be. Do the GAMI lean check to determine the fuel balance of your engine. If you are running right at best BSFC, you will have some power loss. A fifty RPM drop in cruise on your engine should be just about perfect!
Another very important consideration is as to whether or not each cylinder is getting an equal share of air. Lynn, your work on the intake tubes should affect than balance of the airflow. Sounds like great experimentation. Just be sure to rebalance the fuel flows to the actual airflow if that does become necessary.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Downers Grove, ILL
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 9/9/2009 3:28:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Well, for an example....and I don't know how bad this was....I saw
1468 F. today. I was flying along at WOT (3010 rpm), and my #3 got
that high. That was as high as it got, and when it leveled off at
that temp, I reduced throttle to about 2850, and the EGT's came down.
I think this is another example of the fuel slamming forward at high
revs, and the rear cylinders going lean.
Then when I went into "lean of peak" mode, I was getting 1370-1390's
F., and CHT's of 288-305 F. When things settle down after leaning
out, my EGT's had a spread of 47-60-something, and CHT's were within
3 F. at one point, and stayed at less than a 15 F. spread.
Usually when I'm turning about 2850 rpm and I go into "lean of peak
EGT" mode, the #4 gets there first (as I'm leaning) followed by #3,
and I usually watch the #3 (for no good reason at all, and this may
be wrong) get to about 1430-1440, and then it starts to drop. At the
time it peaks....1440 for example...I'll subtract 20 and lean to
1420. At this point there is still power, and it hasn't started to
stumble yet. If I pull it much more lean, it will start to sag, and I
enrichen j-u-s-t a tad. I almost always see 3.2-3.4 gph on the fuel
flow meter at this point. If I cut the revs down to the low 2700's it
will flow under 3.0 gph. At about 2580 or so, 2.5-2.8 gph, but I'm
not going anywhere, just counting the cows. : )
I've looked at the tops and edges of my pistons (small goose-neck
flashlight), and there are no signs of problems yet.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~239
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:17 PM, David Brown wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "David Brown"
<dbrown(at)avecc.com>
Lynn, Listers
I know that all EGT's Are relative and that during my tuning
experience
that I saw EGT's for short periods that were 1410-1420's. can you
give
an EGT no. that represents peak. I am wondering how close I am to
running at that point that is 50 degrees rich of peak that can be
destructive to an engine?
David Brown
601XL JAB 3300
N601EX 125 ========================= Use utilities Day ================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================ - List Contribution Web Site sp; ===================================================
|
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[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: bing carb |
|
|
Good afternoon, Bob-
I just got back from another 2 hrs of flying at LOP, and things are
looking great. The CHT's were sometimes as close as 4° F., and EGT's
were as close as 47°F., today. CHT's are always within 20 F of each
other, and EGT's always within 70 F of each other when in cruise,
LOP. I'm pretty happy with that.
Now I'm waiting for a week of rain to come along so I'll have an
excuse to tear into the intake system and measure, design, and build,
a centrally-located intake manifold, which will mount the TBI as an
updraft. I'm hoping to be able to use the existing intake tubes, but
if I have to make new ones, that's what I'll do. I just KNEW that I
bought that TIG welder for some good reason, and here it is.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 770.6 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~230 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 15, 2009, at 1:57 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Good Afternoon Lynn, (and David Brown)
Just to beat a dead horse!!<G>
I know I am late getting to this thread, but I would like to
emphasize again that the actual temperature reached on any EGT
gauge is immaterial.
The important thing is how close the fuel flows are when the
temperature does reach peak whatever that peak may be. Do the GAMI
lean check to determine the fuel balance of your engine. If you are
running right at best BSFC, you will have some power loss. A fifty
RPM drop in cruise on your engine should be just about perfect!
Another very important consideration is as to whether or not each
cylinder is getting an equal share of air. Lynn, your work on the
intake tubes should affect than balance of the airflow. Sounds like
great experimentation. Just be sure to rebalance the fuel flows to
the actual airflow if that does become necessary.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Downers Grove, ILL
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 9/9/2009 3:28:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes:
<lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Well, for an example....and I don't know how bad this was....I saw
1468 F. today. I was flying along at WOT (3010 rpm), and my #3 got
that high. That was as high as it got, and when it leveled off at
that temp, I reduced throttle to about 2850, and the EGT's came down.
I think this is another example of the fuel slamming forward at high
revs, and the rear cylinders going lean.
Then when I went into "lean of peak" mode, I was getting 1370-1390's
F., and CHT's of 288-305 F. When things settle down after leaning
out, my EGT's had a spread of 47-60-something, and CHT's were within
3 F. at one point, and stayed at less than a 15 F. spread.
Usually when I'm turning about 2850 rpm and I go into "lean of peak
EGT" mode, the #4 gets there first (as I'm leaning) followed by #3,
and I usually watch the #3 (for no good reason at all, and this may
be wrong) get to about 1430-1440, and then it starts to drop. At the
time it peaks....1440 for example...I'll subtract 20 and lean to
1420. At this point there is still power, and it hasn't started to
stumble yet. If I pull it much more lean, it will start to sag, and I
enrichen j-u-s-t a tad. I almost always see 3.2-3.4 gph on the fuel
flow meter at this point. If I cut the revs down to the low 2700's it
will flow under 3.0 gph. At about 2580 or so, 2.5-2.8 gph, but I'm
not going anywhere, just counting the cows. : )
I've looked at the tops and edges of my pistons (small goose-neck
flashlight), and there are no signs of problems yet.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 761.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~239
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:17 PM, David Brown wrote:
>
> <dbrown(at)avecc.com>
>
> Lynn, Listers
>
> I know that all EGT's Are relative and that during my tuning
> experience
> that I saw EGT's for short periods that were 1410-1420's. can you
> give
> an EGT no. that represents peak. I am wondering how close I am to
> running at that point that is 50 degrees rich of peak that can be
> destructive to an engine?
>
> David Brown
> 601XL JAB 3300
> N601EX 125 ========================= Use utilities Day
================================================ -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
================================================ - List
Contribution Web Site sp;
===================================================
www.matronics.com/contribution _-
============================================================
|
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
|
_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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