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Gas line

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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: Gas line

Last spring I installed a new gas line, and while looking the plane over I saw that it had collapsed at a mild radius.  The hose below the gas level was all mushy.  The line above the gas level is firm.  The hose was acquired at a local auto parts store, and is marked as follows:  09 13 08 Z        50PSI    Fuel/Emission    SAE 30R7    Made in USA   Goodyear

  

   I am replacing it with a Gates hose, also marked SAE 30R7.  The fuel in the tank has 10% alcohol in it, plus Penzoil 2-stroke oil, plus Stabil.  The last time I ran it, it sounded funny at higher throttle settings.  I believe it was starved for gas, due to the hose sucking flat.  Luckily, it is not ready for flight and was only run in my back yard.

  

   Has anyone else noticed this problem?  

  

                                                   Bill Sullivan

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                   FS 447

 [quote][b]

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line

17sep09

Bill S.,



Iâ€™m no help on the black fuel line, but recently Iâ€™ve experienced a failure with the blue urethane...



Nearly two years ago I had to park my FireFly and temporally relocate from Maui to Oahu. (No, I wasn't in jail this time...) Shortly before parking the plane I had replaced the fuel lines with the blue urethane line. The catalog said... "Absolutely will not harden, crack, or become brittle with age." After my last flight I did a somewhat incomplete job of draining the fuel.



Two weeks ago I got back to the plane and started to get her back to air worthiness.



In places where the fuel line was protected from the sun everything appeared to be OK. In unprotected areas, the blue had completely faded from the side of the line that faced the sun. In low places where fuel residue had gathered, the line was shot full of hairline cracks. (None appeared to be leaking...)



Inside the fuel tank I had used a two-inch piece of the blue urethane to connect the in-tank filter to the fuel pick-up tube. This piece of fuel line had completely come apart. It was in a dozen little blue pieces on the bottom of the tank. The little pieces would turn into a gritty blue jelly when given a squeeze.



I have elected to replace the blue line with the yellow tygothane... I note that the catalog says it will... "Absolutely will not harden, crack, or become brittle with age." And it cost more than the blue, so it's gotta be better... It is softer than the blue and has a "snakey" feel. I like it already.



Twice, I have seen unidentified bits of detris being sucked up towards the impulse pump in time to shut the engine down. This is why I have not migrated to the black fuel line.



You can bet that when the yellow line hardens, cracks, or becomes brittle with age, I'll be back to whine about it.



Almost forgot... Our fuel is 10% alcohol... Surprise, Surprise!!!



Aloha

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

Do Not Archive

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: Gas line

Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in the yard.  I don't think it was affected by it, but you never know.  I was going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned that it would collapse under suction.  I still wonder if it's the alcohol.  If alcohol makes me soft and mushy, maybe it does the same to neoprene.

  

                                          Bill Sullivan

                                          Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                          FS 447

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: Gas line

At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in the 

 yard.  I don't think it was affected by it, but you never know.  I was 

 going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned that it would 

 collapse under suction.  I still wonder if it's the alcohol.  If alcohol 

 makes me soft and mushy, maybe it does the same to neoprene.


	


I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is harder, less 

susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer.  You still need to replace it 

every couple of years.  I think it's the sunlight (UV) that does most of 

the damage.



The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing", is a 

vinyl product.  Tygothane is something different, a polyurethane product, 

and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.



There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away, they're 

cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.



I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see what's 

inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.



-Dana

--

  The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: Gas line

when I built my firestar I used a pice of the leftover aluminum  

tubeing for most of my fuel line

and only used a short piece of the plastic that kolb provided to make  

the conection at the

very ends. I don"t know if that was a good idea or not. At my yearly  

condition insp. I changed

to black fuel line for marine use it is supposed to be alcohol  

resistant. Next time I am thinking

about going to copper air conditioning tube, I also don"t if that is a  

good idea.

Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

Brownsville , Tex

On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Dana Hague wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:

>  Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in  

> the yard.  I don't think it was affected by it, but you never  

> know.  I was going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned  

> that it would collapse under suction.  I still wonder if it's the  

> alcohol.  If alcohol makes me soft and mushy, maybe it does the  

> same to neoprene.

 I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is  

 harder, less susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer.  You still  

 need to replace it every couple of years.  I think it's the sunlight  

 (UV) that does most of the damage.

 The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing",  

 is a vinyl product.  Tygothane is something different, a  

 polyurethane product, and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.

 There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away,  

 they're cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.

 I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see  

 what's inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.

 -Dana

 --

 The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: Gas line

Frank,



I believe aluminum will withstand vibration better than copper.  And for the 

same size is lighter.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

At 08:35 AM 9/18/09 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



when I built my firestar I used a pice of the leftover aluminum  

tubeing for most of my fuel line

and only used a short piece of the plastic that kolb provided to make  

the conection at the

very ends. I don"t know if that was a good idea or not. At my yearly  

condition insp. I changed

to black fuel line for marine use it is supposed to be alcohol  

resistant. Next time I am thinking

about going to copper air conditioning tube, I also don"t if that is a  

good idea.

Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

Brownsville , Tex

On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Dana Hague wrote:

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Gas line

The Tygon tubing product intended for fuel lines is Tygon F4040A. It is yellow and traslucent but so are some other Tygon tubing types. The F4040A has been tested satisfactorily for use with E-10 auto fuel according to the factory tech rep I spoke to about it.



It is very flexible  and resistant to cracking down to -35F but on the hot end it is not good above about 160F or so. It should handle suction for Kolbs from tank to fuel engine mounted fuel pump but NOT for pulse lines on 2-strokes. I've installed in on two airplanes with no apparent problems under the conditions I mentioned.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: Gas line

There is blue tubing and then there is the tubing 

produced by Bing - available from Aircraft 

Spruce.  Get the Bing stuff, cost more but is 

less affected by fuel and oil we use.  Note if it 

is the actual Bing stuff it will have Bing 

printed on it every foot or so.  The plain blue 

stuff hardens, often turns green over time and 

becomes brittle where it can easily break and 

does.  Don't use it, use the Bing product.

jerb

At 02:36 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



17sep09

Bill S.,



Iâ€™m no help on the black fuel line, but 

recently Iâ€™ve experienced a failure with the blue urethane...



Nearly two years ago I had to park my FireFly 

and temporally relocate from Maui to Oahu. (No, 

I wasn't in jail this time...) Shortly before 

parking the plane I had replaced the fuel lines 

with the blue urethane line. The catalog said... 

"Absolutely will not harden, crack, or become 

brittle with age." After my last flight I did a 

somewhat incomplete job of draining the fuel.



Two weeks ago I got back to the plane and 

started to get her back to air worthiness.



In places where the fuel line was protected from 

the sun everything appeared to be OK. In 

unprotected areas, the blue had completely faded 

from the side of the line that faced the sun. In 

low places where fuel residue had gathered, the 

line was shot full of hairline cracks. (None appeared to be leaking...)



Inside the fuel tank I had used a two-inch piece 

of the blue urethane to connect the in-tank 

filter to the fuel pick-up tube. This piece of 

fuel line had completely come apart. It was in a 

dozen little blue pieces on the bottom of the 

tank. The little pieces would turn into a gritty 

blue jelly when given a squeeze.



I have elected to replace the blue line with the 

yellow tygothane... I note that the catalog says 

it will... "Absolutely will not harden, crack, 

or become brittle with age." And it cost more 

than the blue, so it's gotta be better... It is 

softer than the blue and has a "snakey" feel. I like it already.



Twice, I have seen unidentified bits of detris 

being sucked up towards the impulse pump in time 

to shut the engine down. This is why I have not 

migrated to the black fuel line.



You can bet that when the yellow line hardens, 

cracks, or becomes brittle with age, I'll be back to whine about it.



Almost forgot... Our fuel is 10% alcohol... Surprise, Surprise!!!



Aloha



--------

Henry

Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo



Do Not Archive





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 63584#263584

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: Gas line

I've used the Tygon tubing in the past, it took a little longer than 

the plain blue (non-Bing product) but it hardened over time also.  I 

have totally gone over to the blue Bing tuning for my fuel and primer 

lines and am very pleased with it.  The Bing is sold by Aircraft Spruce.

jerb

At 03:24 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:

>   Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting 

> in the yard.  I don't think it was affected by it, but you never 

> know.  I was going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was 

> concerned that it would collapse under suction.  I still wonder if 

> it's the alcohol.  If alcohol makes me soft and mushy, maybe it 

> does the same to neoprene.

I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is 

harder, less susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer.  You still 

need to replace it every couple of years.  I think it's the sunlight 

(UV) that does most of the damage.

The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing", 

is a vinyl product.  Tygothane is something different, a 

polyurethane product, and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.

There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away, 

they're cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.

I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see 

what's inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.

-Dana

--

  The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: Gas line

You know replacing the flex tubing with aluminum tubing for most of 

the run might not be a bad idea.  When Kolb shipped my kit they sent 

the wrong wall thickness tube, They said it would cost more to return 

it than it was worth so told me to keep it and reshipped the correct 

material.  That tubing might work just fine.  Got to think about this 

and look things over.

jerb



At 06:35 AM 9/18/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



when I built my firestar I used a pice of the leftover aluminum

tubeing for most of my fuel line

and only used a short piece of the plastic that kolb provided to make

the conection at the

very ends. I don"t know if that was a good idea or not. At my yearly

condition insp. I changed

to black fuel line for marine use it is supposed to be alcohol

resistant. Next time I am thinking

about going to copper air conditioning tube, I also don"t if that is a

good idea.

Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

Brownsville , Tex

On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Dana Hague wrote:



>

>

>At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:

>>  Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in

>>the yard.  I don't think it was affected by it, but you never

>>know.  I was going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned

>>that it would collapse under suction.  I still wonder if it's the

>>alcohol.  If alcohol makes me soft and mushy, maybe it does the

>>same to neoprene.

>

>I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is

>harder, less susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer.  You still

>need to replace it every couple of years.  I think it's the sunlight

>(UV) that does most of the damage.

>

>The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing",

>is a vinyl product.  Tygothane is something different, a

>polyurethane product, and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.

>

>There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away,

>they're cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.

>

>I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see

>what's inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.

>

>-Dana

>--

>The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

>

>

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