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Throttle

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tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: Throttle

Now the other subject,



I told you in the precedent post that I had 2 subjects....you should not be sleeping. In France it is 11h30pm but you are just waking up, so good day to all.



Now I was checking my fuel gauges up there in the sky and lining up I came to the final. On short, I reduced all, and I had a surprise, the throttle did not want to go under 50%.

So I continued and landed at 50%...so now I can tell you that it is possible to land on a grass strip of 700m at 50%  full fine pitch and stop at the end...

 I went at 50% to make some fuel, and stopped the engine.

Then, I started again to taxi to my hangar and made some engine runup.

An dthen surprise, it worked fine.

I do not know what happened, but it is a little frightenning. Not being able to reduce..

Is this something that already happenned to someone??

Anyone have an idea of what happenned.???



O now I am finished for the weekend, so good weekend to all and fly safe



Didier HA-JAC 18T

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

pilko2(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:04 am Post subject: Throttle

That's likely carburettor icing restricting the butterfly/linkage movement. 



I've had the same and I now select carb heat on finals if there is any

moisture in the air.



Fly safe

kp  



--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:43 am Post subject: Throttle

That's an interesting one. I thought that the M14P was very little subject to carburator icing. OK yes very interesting. Even with minus 15 I never had carb icing on that motor. But that sound like it as this effect disappear after taxiing.

  Has anyone else experienced such thing??

Thanks.

Now I will set the carb heat on at each landing.



Didier





2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "pilko2" <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

   

 That's likely carburettor icing restricting the butterfly/linkage movement.

 

 I've had the same and I now select carb heat on finals if there is any

 moisture in the air.

 

 Fly safe

 kp

 

 --

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Throttle

Hello Didier,

I would check the throttle linkage too. Make sure that the copper tube is really fixed and no movement is lost between the levers in the cockpit and the carb. Ice in the carb should prevent any movement of the throttle, did you notice that this was the case ?

Good luck with trouble shooting.

Vic

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: Throttle

OK good sugestion,

 I'll have a look to that also.

Thanks and good day



regards



Didier



2009/10/18 Vic <vicmolnar(at)aol.com (vicmolnar(at)aol.com)>

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar(at)aol.com (vicmolnar(at)aol.com)>

   

 Hello Didier,

 I would check the throttle linkage too. Make sure that the copper tube is really fixed and no movement is lost between the levers in the cockpit and the carb. Ice in the carb should prevent any movement of the throttle, did you notice that this was the case ?

   Good luck with trouble shooting.

 Vic

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268388#268388

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Didier BLOUZARD

didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)

0624243672

  [quote][b]

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

pilko2(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: Throttle

Carburettor icing is not necessarily relevant to ambient  temperature. Critical atmospheric water will not be present at  -15C.

  

 Carb icing is quite common in the warm moist UK conditions,  especially at low manifold settings.

  

 BEWARE !



   From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier  Blouzard

Sent: 18 October 2009 12:41

To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Yak-List:  Throttle

 

That's an interesting one. I thought that the M14P was very little  subject to carburator icing. OK yes very interesting. Even with minus 15 I never  had carb icing on that motor. But that sound like it as this effect disappear  after taxiing.

Has anyone else experienced such thing??

Thanks.

Now I  will set the carb heat on at each landing.



Didier





 2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "pilko2" <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>



That's    likely carburettor icing restricting the butterfly/linkage    movement.



I've had the same and I now select carb heat on finals if    there is any

moisture in the air.



Fly    safe

kp



--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: Throttle

OK Ok I was not aware that the M14P was particularly sensitive to carb icing. I will put full warm now on low pa..

But I will also check the tube...for sure.



Thanks 



Kind rgards



  2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

[quote]       Carburettor icing is not necessarily relevant to ambient  temperature. Critical atmospheric water will not be present at  -15C.

  

 Carb icing is quite common in the warm moist UK conditions,  especially at low manifold settings.

  

 BEWARE !



   From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Didier  Blouzard

Sent: 18 October 2009 12:41

To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)



Subject: Re: Yak-List:  Throttle



 

That's an interesting one. I thought that the M14P was very little  subject to carburator icing. OK yes very interesting. Even with minus 15 I never  had carb icing on that motor. But that sound like it as this effect disappear  after taxiing.

Has anyone else experienced such thing??

Thanks.

Now I  will set the carb heat on at each landing.



Didier





 

2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

 



[quote]

--> Yak-List message posted by: "pilko2" <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

  

That's    likely carburettor icing restricting the butterfly/linkage    movement.



I've had the same and I now select carb heat on finals if    there is any

moisture in the air.



Fly    safe

kp



--

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: Throttle

Depends who you talk to Didier.  I've owned a YAK-50 for over 9 years in North Carolina and have not once experienced carb ice.  Not that I am aware of anyway.  

 

On the other hand, many people on this list swear to the fact that it has happened to them more than once.  

 

I think we are ALL correct.  I know it hasn't happened to me, but I believe it has happened to others.  

 

The carb we use in the M-14 is a pressure carb.  But pressure carbs, even though very close to being defined as "single point fuel injection" per se, still do have a Venturi.  Thus it is entirely feasible that they could develop ice.  

 

Just as a matter of curiosity, does your airplane have a carb inlet temp gage?  My YAK does.  It is marked to basically show the "danger range" where ice can happen.  Again, on my particular airplane, there is no "carb heat" .... there is instead an intake air flap that can be closed, thus forcing the carb to draw in air from the back of the engine, which would be much warmer.  But it does not actually take hot air off of a heat muff, such as the kind that is used for cabin heating.  The Yak-50 does not have any cabin heat.  Which... is not really a good thing.  

 

It strikes me that possibly carb icing has a ton of factors involved that make it hard to predict, and make and model of aircraft might even be a factor.  I do not know.  

 

Still waiting for my own very first carb ice experience, but until it happens I don't think I will be opening and closing the carb ram air inlet flap on every landing.  I suspect your design is totally different than my own. 

 

Mark Bitterlich



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Didier Blouzard

Sent: Sun 10/18/2009 3:21 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Throttle

OK Ok I was not aware that the M14P was particularly sensitive to carb icing. I will put full warm now on low pa..

But I will also check the tube....for sure.



Thanks 



Kind rgards

2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com>

	Carburettor icing is not necessarily relevant to ambient temperature. Critical atmospheric water will not be present at -15C.

	 

	Carb icing is quite common in the warm moist UK conditions, especially at low manifold settings.

	 

	BEWARE !



________________________________



	From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard

	Sent: 18 October 2009 12:41 



	To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

	

	Subject: Re: Throttle

	

	

	That's an interesting one. I thought that the M14P was very little subject to carburator icing. OK yes very interesting. Even with minus 15 I never had carb icing on that motor. But that sound like it as this effect disappear after taxiing.

	Has anyone else experienced such thing??

	Thanks.

	Now I will set the carb heat on at each landing.

	

	Didier

	

	

	

	

	

	2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com>

	



		

		

		That's likely carburettor icing restricting the butterfly/linkage movement.

		

		I've had the same and I now select carb heat on finals if there is any

		moisture in the air.

		

		Fly safe

		kp

		

		--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: Throttle

Mark,



I must say that the thing that happened seems more mechanical than ice. But I will examine all possibilities.

The only thing I know is that I did not dreamed the problem. I was with a friend owner of a 52. He is a comercial pilot. And both of us could see that the motor did not want to go under 50% even if I pushed hard on the throtle lever. We even tried to check the pitch (going to coarse and back to fine).

  After turning off the motor and refueling. At the next start everything came back to normal. But I did not tried the carb heat (was off) and I did not looked closely to the throtle lever. Was it completely down or was it blocked I am not sure.

  

But it could be that it is a problem of the cable in the copper tube....don't know....I moved the throtle after turning off the motor and it looks fine... . I will check all this tomorrow and hoppefully come back with something.

  

When something like this happen I like to find both cause and solution..for the moment I just had the resukt...that's bad!!!



thanks very much



Kind regards



Didier



  2009/10/18 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

[quote]  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 

 Depends who you talk to Didier.  I've owned a YAK-50 for over 9 years in North Carolina and have not once experienced carb ice.  Not that I am aware of anyway.

 

 On the other hand, many people on this list swear to the fact that it has happened to them more than once.

 

 I think we are ALL correct.  I know it hasn't happened to me, but I believe it has happened to others.

 

 The carb we use in the M-14 is a pressure carb.  But pressure carbs, even though very close to being defined as "single point fuel injection" per se, still do have a Venturi.  Thus it is entirely feasible that they could develop ice.

   

 Just as a matter of curiosity, does your airplane have a carb inlet temp gage?  My YAK does.  It is marked to basically show the "danger range" where ice can happen.  Again, on my particular airplane, there is no "carb heat" .... there is instead an intake air flap that can be closed, thus forcing the carb to draw in air from the back of the engine, which would be much warmer.  But it does not actually take hot air off of a heat muff, such as the kind that is used for cabin heating.  The Yak-50 does not have any cabin heat.  Which... is not really a good thing.

   

 It strikes me that possibly carb icing has a ton of factors involved that make it hard to predict, and make and model of aircraft might even be a factor.  I do not know.

 

 Still waiting for my own very first carb ice experience, but until it happens I don't think I will be opening and closing the carb ram air inlet flap on every landing.  I suspect your design is totally different than my own.

   

 Mark Bitterlich

 

 ________________________________

 

 From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) on behalf of Didier Blouzard

 Sent: Sun 10/18/2009 3:21 PM

 

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Throttle

 

 

 OK Ok I was not aware that the M14P was particularly sensitive to carb icing. I will put full warm now on low pa..

 But I will also check the tube....for sure.

 

 Thanks

 

 Kind rgards

 

 

 2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

 

 

         Carburettor icing is not necessarily relevant to ambient temperature. Critical atmospheric water will not be present at -15C.

 

         Carb icing is quite common in the warm moist UK conditions, especially at low manifold settings.

 

         BEWARE !

 

 ________________________________

 

         From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard

           Sent: 18 October 2009 12:41

 

         To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

 

         Subject: Re: Throttle

 

 

         That's an interesting one. I thought that the M14P was very little subject to carburator icing. OK yes very interesting. Even with minus 15 I never had carb icing on that motor. But that sound like it as this effect disappear after taxiing.

           Has anyone else experienced such thing??

         Thanks.

         Now I will set the carb heat on at each landing.

 

         Didier

 

 

 

 

 

         2009/10/18 pilko2 <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

 

 

                 --> Yak-List message posted by: "pilko2" <pilko2(at)btinternet.com (pilko2(at)btinternet.com)>

 

                 That's likely carburettor icing restricting the butterfly/linkage movement.

 

                 I've had the same and I now select carb heat on finals if there is any

                 moisture in the air.

 

                 Fly safe

                 kp

 

                 --

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: Throttle

I SAW a carburettor on a Yak 52 freeze while doing a ground test (with the

cowling off). It was moist, and outside temp at about 5 degrees. You could

see it become all white at the outside, and the engine started tor run quite

rough. 



Jan



--

plus2s

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: Throttle

Hi Didier

  

 We have struck the same thing here in New Zealand during our cooler weather when after landing the throttle will not move. This can happen when the carb inlet temp is below 3' .

  I have struck it several times and after closing the carb inlet it cures the problem almost immediately. Often on cold days I will set it at about half position, If the inlet temp is kept above 3" it does not stick. Have only ever had it happen either on short finals or after landing.

  

 Regards

  

 Keith

  

 Yak 52



--- On Mon, 19/10/09, Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Throttle

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Received: Monday, 19 October, 2009, 10:06 AM



 Mark,



I must say that the thing that happened seems more mechanical than ice. But I will examine all possibilities.

The only thing I know is that I did not dreamed the problem. I was with a friend owner of a 52. He is a comercial pilot. And both of us could see that the motor did not want to go under 50% even if I pushed hard on the throtle lever. We even tried to check the pitch (going to coarse and back to fine)..

After turning off the motor and refueling. At the next start everything came back to normal. But I did not tried the carb heat (was off) and I did not looked closely to the throtle lever. Was it completely down or was it blocked I am not sure.

	
 

  	  Quote: 	
		  	
  [quote][b]

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: Throttle

I also am inclined to think that it was carburettor icing. The block of ice in the carburettor could jam the throttle.   

Carburettor icing can  happen quite often here in Northern Europe, when the weather is very moist and temperatures around 5 degrees centigrades. We don’t have the problem when it’s really freezing, of course.   

   

Jan   

     

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Pickford

 Sent: maandag 19 oktober 2009 0:06

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Throttle  

  

              

Hi Didier   

      

    

      

We have struck the same thing here in New Zealand during   our cooler weather when after landing the throttle will not move. This can   happen when the carb inlet temp is below 3' .   

      

 I have struck it several times and   after closing the carb inlet it cures the problem almost   immediately. Often on cold days I will set it at about half position, If   the inlet temp is kept above 3" it does not stick. Have only ever had it   happen either on short finals or after landing.   

      

    

      

Regards   

      

    

      

Keith   

      

    

      

Yak 52

   

   --- On Mon, 19/10/09, Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com>   wrote:   

    	  Quote: 	
		     



   From: Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com>

   Subject: Re: Throttle

   To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

   Received: Monday, 19 October, 2009, 10:06 AM      

Mark,

   

   I must say that the thing that happened seems more mechanical than ice. But I   will examine all possibilities.

   The only thing I know is that I did not dreamed the problem. I was with a   friend owner of a 52. He is a comercial pilot. And both of us could see that   the motor did not want to go under 50% even if I pushed hard on the throtle   lever. We even tried to check the pitch (going to coarse and back to fine)...

   After turning off the motor and refueling. At the next start everything came   back to normal. But I did not tried the carb heat (was off) and I did not   looked closely to the throtle lever. Was it completely down or was it blocked   I am not sure.   

   	
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: Throttle

On the YAK-52 Keith? 



Mark

 



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